Trim automation level - one of my favorites went away

[Mikey MTC]

Thanks for the kudos guys. They've called the videos "Pro Tools 8" but as stated, the principles discussed have mostly been there since 7.2.

I would have loved to have been MORE ICON-centric, but of course the number of HD users without ICONs greatly outnumbers those with. I almost felt like I needed to apologize every time I mentioned the term "control surface!" <g>

[macaholic]

Yes, more ICON-centric would have been nice, but I contacted the folks at Groovebox, and they said they were "considering" one... Maybe you could be our advocate on the inside Mikey MTC.

It still made my use of the ICON better, I just had to go to the manual and find the "non SoftKeys" way of doing things (like CMD+AutoMode Off to put into Preview Mode, and CMD+Read to suspend). Having things on the top level REALLY helps streamline things.

[Mikey MTC]

I'd be interested, but I've marginalized the market enough being HD only. I'd then be marginalizing the market further by looking only at ICON.

The majority of the Pro Tools user base is LE users, so any material outside of that is potentially scaring away users.

There was talk a while back on this forum about us users creating content for other users - tips and tricks, etc - but of course this is no simple undertaking and we're all busy trying to feed our families so it's hard to get stuff like that moving.

[Boe Larsen]

Hi again Mikey.

The only thing that struck me in the video, was your thought on creating a headphone mix. I do that in what I consider a slightly simpler way.

I just create a send on each channel and put it in "post" mode. That way all automation is still reflected in the cans. If I then want a push on some individual channels - I can just boost that track on the send (giving it an offset really).

Then I do a VCA group on all tracks BUT the vocal track I'm recording on. With that fader I can easily take down the level of the headphone send to suit the singer.

So... VCAs + a post send that's it. I don't have to copy faders and auto...

Best,
Boe

[Mikey MTC]

Hey Boe,

The problem with doing any headphone mix using post sends though is that you're tying your own hands in the control room. You can't do many things you might need to do, like mute things that are annoying you but leave them in the headphones, or make some crazy level changes like pull all the music really soft and have the vocal being recorded really loud, or whatever.

If I missed the point of your post, please tell me. I certainly get your idea about having a VCA for all music except for the vocal being recorded. Cool idea in your setup but wouldn't work in mine because VCAs can't control just a send but not the main fader ... unless there's a tricky way to get around this .... I can't think of it at the moment.

Also, you can still copy all automation to the sends in spite of them being pre-fader in my example. That tip was really just a last minute thing I threw in there because I just did it on a session around the same time I was recording the tutes.

Regards,

[Boe Larsen]

Originally Posted by Mikey MTC

The problem with doing any headphone mix using post sends though is that you're tying your own hands in the control room. You can't do many things you might need to do, like mute things that are annoying you but leave them in the headphones, or make some crazy level changes like pull all the music really soft and have the vocal being recorded really loud, or whatever.

When I record vocals I really like to hear what the singer is hearing to "be where he/she is" - the exeption beeing the vocal maybe a little louder in the cans.

Originally Posted by Mikey MTC

If I missed the point of your post, please tell me. I certainly get your idea about having a VCA for all music except for the vocal being recorded. Cool idea in your setup but wouldn't work in mine because VCAs can't control just a send but not the main fader ... unless there's a tricky way to get around this .... I can't think of it at the moment.

Ah, I understand - but in my setup I have the sends "post" so it works great.

Originally Posted by Mikey MTC

Also, you can still copy all automation to the sends in spite of them being pre-fader in my example. That tip was really just a last minute thing I threw in there because I just did it on a session around the same time I was recording the tutes.

Yeah, it's cool, but the thing is that the copied automation is not following the automation of your mix - which I like...
Usually I'll have the channels I need to mess with (to keep the singer happy) in READ-TRIM - so then I know what need to get back when returning to mixing.

Best,
Boe

[Mikey MTC]

When I record vocals I really like to hear what the singer is hearing to "be where he/she is" - the exeption beeing the vocal maybe a little louder in the cans.

Same here - as an option - so what I do is route my Cue 1 send back into Stereo 4, and at the push of a button I get to hear what they're hearing. That way I can make sure there's no weird phasing going on, or maybe some instrument that shouldn't be on has found its way into their mix but not mine. Then it's easy to switch between the two mixes with two buttons.

Usually I'll have the channels I need to mess with (to keep the singer happy) in READ-TRIM - so then I know what need to get back when returning to mixing.

That's a really good idea. Of course if it was the singer's own dedicated mix, it wouldn't matter if you adjusted it away from where it started or not.

This is a horses for courses thing ... I mean whatever works for you is the best thing and you've found your solution, so cool. I'm always really interested to see how others are doing stuff in case I think it's better than the way I do the same thing. There's so many solutions to the same problem with Pro Tools!

[Boe Larsen]

Originally Posted by Mikey MTC

Same here - as an option - so what I do is route my Cue 1 send back into Stereo 4, and at the push of a button I get to hear what they're hearing. That way I can make sure there's no weird phasing going on, or maybe some instrument that shouldn't be on has found its way into their mix but not mine. Then it's easy to switch between the two mixes with two buttons.

That's a really good idea. Of course if it was the singer's own dedicated mix, it wouldn't matter if you adjusted it away from where it started or not.

This is a horses for courses thing ... I mean whatever works for you is the best thing and you've found your solution, so cool. I'm always really interested to see how others are doing stuff in case I think it's better than the way I do the same thing. There's so many solutions to the same problem with Pro Tools!

Yeah, you're right. Nice to hear how you're doing it.
By the way - I also got an Aviom system, so sometimes I'll put out the vocal on a button there, so the singer can choose the add level herself. Also, I'll put out some extra rev/delay on a stereo fader, so she can make the balance herself.

Regards

[Boe Larsen]

Ah, and another thing regarding automation...

I need to stretch a multi track, say from 100bpm to 120bpm.

All, well, but the automation don't move with it when I change the master tempo.

Any ideas?

[Chris Lambrechts]

Hi Boe,


Regardless the stretching method (Elastic Audio or plugin stretching etc ...) key is to have your tracks in 'ticks' mode and not in Sample mode.

In ticks mode your automation (as well as you audio files with EA enabled for that matter ) will adapt to the new tempo.

Chris