Latency is killing my groove

[L-Dogg]

Hi all, I wonder if you can help.

I have a Godin Freeway Synth Access guitar that I run into an Axon AX100MkII converter, into a MOTU Midi Express 128 and via USB into my computer.

The computer is a Mac Pro Quad 2.66GHz with 2 Gig RAM.

Pro Tools is 7.4 LE.

I have to set the hardware buffer at 128 to be able to play in time...even at slow tempos. The problem is that then I get the error that I need to increase the hardware buffer as the system held off interrupts for too long. Also before when I bought Spectrasonics Atmosphere I would have to reduce the number of voices and it would be too much for it all and cause all sorts of crashes ( I know it is not UB, but it works for many )

I have turned off Airport and have nothing running just Pro Tools. This also happens with Xpand .

Is there a way to not be bothered by this latency?

I have noticed it is not as bad using the keyboard controller. Is it because there is another step...the converter to the interface to the computer?

The thing is that I do not play keys so I was really trying to get the guitar synth going.

Can I MIDI out from the Axon direct to the 002R and still have my other MIDI stuff hooked to the MOTU interface and connected with the USB or will that confuse Audio/Midi setup?

Thanks I appreciate any help.

[flommer]

You kinda have a lot going on here.. I think you need to break it down into the components to find out where the problems are.

First off, you should be able to run at 128 or lower with no problems. You are only recording MIDI and your system should be able to handle 1 VI without throwing errors. You didn't say if this is happening when you get several tracks going.. The only thing I can say for sure that used to cause buffer errors for me was when I initially had BFD installed on my system drive.. When I moved the samples off to their own drive everything smoothed out. I do have CPU usage limit at 85%, don't remember if that made a difference..

Do you have any type of hardware MIDI synth that you could use to test the AXON? If you can notice latency then, it's certainly only going to get a little worse if you're trying to play a VI in ProTools, lag-wise.

I do not think that going through the MOTU should be adding any noticeable lag.. But you can test it easily enough. Like you suggest, try the AXON into the 002 by itself and then with other stuff plugged into the MOTU. Just drag the connectors around in Audio/MIDI setup to whatever scenario you are trying.

[L-Dogg]

Hi flommer and thanks.

Actually this will occur with a new session and just an instrument track or an Aux track a MIDI track and an audio track...with nothing else going on, no plug-in's etc.

I have had this for a long time. Initially I thought it was the Yamaha guitar MIDI setup just being slow and before that I thought it was my computer.

So I got a nice computer and upgraded to the Axon and Godin. Still having issues. I had to send Atmosphere back because it would not run properly on the computer. Luckily the salesman told me it was Universal Binary when it was not so they took it back.

This system I have is all top notch....I should be getting stellar performance. I wonder what is going wrong or what I may have done incorrectly?

Yeah no 128 while helping the latency causes buffer errors. 512 or higher sorts that out but then I have such a huge lag between the time I pick the note to when I hear it that it is unplayable.
Using Stylus RMX is no problem at all and regular audio no problems...even the Edirol key controller is much better on the latency.

The guitar through the Axon is awful. So was a different guitar setup through the Yamaha. Something about these Guitarto Midi converters seems to add latency for me.

I will try taking the MIDIO direct to the 002.

I have a ton of sample libraries....I wonder if I should move them all to a different drive?

[flommer]

In the interests of better performance, definitely move your samples to a different drive. You should be recording to a different drive too. You don't mention if you are already doing that.. If you are trying to do everything with just the system drive, then that could be a source of your problems.. Digi doesn't even support recording to the system drive.

Can you test the AXON and guitar apart from ProTools using a MIDI synth? Any keyboard synth should do for testing. Borrow something if needed. That will give you a real feel for how much lag is just coming from the MIDI converter. I get the impression from reading a little about the AXON that it is touted as having very low latency, but since they mention it at all it makes me suspect that this type of processor may be laggy in general..

[L-Dogg]

Thanks again. Yes I have a dedicated audio drive I record to.

I do have a Korg Sound module I can use to test the Axon. I will try that.

So if I have Drumcore, Garritan Personal Orchestra, Garritan jazz and Big band and EZ Drummer.....I should move all the samples to the audio drive?

[flommer]

Well, I'm not familiar with the sample players you list so I can't be sure if this applies, but I read in a post that BFD uses the equivalent of something like 11 tracks of audio (in disk bandwidth terms) for every hit. If that type of disk I/O is going on for all those different players you list, then you could very well be using too much bandwidth for a single drive. I think BFD is particularly bad as far as disk requirements go, so those others may have less impact. Hopefully there are others here who can chime in about the drive requirements for these sample library/players...

[L-Dogg]

Flommer thanks so much for taking the time with your helpful replies.

I would be really interested in reading that post on the samples taking up the equivalent of 11 audio tracks. Wow! I had never thought of it that way. I thought the samples just "resided" somewhere LOL and when called for they loaded into RAM to be used by the actual app, BFD, Drumcore, Reason etc etc, and that the fact that it was rewired in Tools had no bearing on the host. I had no idea that Pro Tools was also taking a hit. A big one according to what you said you had read.

I suppose though that it makes sense if the computer is having to search through the drive for all this stuff.Pro Tools, BFD, plug-in's, automation info etc etc etc.....maybe it does stress it out. I thought that the 4 processors in the Quad made it much easier.

Funny how as we go up in computer power so too do the apps seem to be going up in requirements, to an extent. I can remember when an app would require 64 MB of RAM and now 1Gig seems the norm, with 2 Gig highly recommended. Especially on the sample library apps.

Very interesting.

Thanks again.