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#1
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44.1 kHz vs. 48 kHz - why not use the higher?
Hey all,
I've been noticing on here that there are a bunch of people that say that their "standard" sessions are 24 bit 44.1 kHz. I've always used 24 bit 48 kHz sessions, then truncated down to 16 bit 44.1 kHz for mastering. Anyone have reasons, other than file sizes, to NOT use a 48 kHz sample rate? Does the truncation yield a point of diminishing return, i.e., not produce enough of an improvement to offset the detriments of the truncation? What session rates do you use? |
#2
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Re: 44.1 kHz vs. 48 kHz - why not use the higher?
In theory, sample rate conversion may cause errors in the audio files. THis is the same logic that records at 88.2(instead of 96K) for a final product CD. The math to convert form 88.2K to 44.1K is simple, vs the math to convert from 96K to 44.1K. My philosophy is simple. If the end goal is audio(CD or uploads) I go 44.1K. If the end goal will be tied to video, I go 48k. In either case, I always record at 24 bit and dither the final 2mix during mastering (even if its nothing more than dither and Waves L2 for a rough CD. I bounce to disk at the original sample rate and bit depth. Any conversion or bit reduction gets done in a separate step in WaveLab(including mp3). Now, having said all this, if your ears tell you that 48K sounds better, then go with it(I have yet to have a client mention it).
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HP Z4 workstation, Mbox Studio https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works The better I drink, the more I mix BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave |
#3
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Re: 44.1 kHz vs. 48 kHz - why not use the higher?
Quote:
But you are right. It's the SRC that has always been frowned upon. Avoiding it is looked upon as a step towards quality. Historically, many SRC algorithms have been quite atrocious. While many have improved over time, you can see a visual of where some are currently here. http://src.infinitewave.ca/ And of course, Audioease's world-famous audio demonstrations. http://www.audioease.com/Pages/Barba...a4SRCTest.html
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James Cadwallader Mac Studio, 64GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, Glyph 2TB USB3 HDD, OWC drive dock, Mac OS Monterey 12.6.8 Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.9, HD Native, Focusrite Red 8Pre Presonus Faderport, Pro Tools | Control |
#4
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Re: 44.1 kHz vs. 48 kHz - why not use the higher?
I only stated my opinion No one needs to agree, and other views are always welcome(since I would not claim to be the end-all on this one). Besides......he started it
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HP Z4 workstation, Mbox Studio https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works The better I drink, the more I mix BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave |
#5
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Re: 44.1 kHz vs. 48 kHz - why not use the higher?
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What effects the sound of the conversion is not the actual conversion to the new sample rate, it is the reconstruction filter at the Nyquist frequency. But this holds true for any sampling, not just sample rate conversion. The crappier the filter is, the worse it will sound.
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Derek Jones Sound Engineer / Producer / Composer Derek Jones Linkedin Megatrax Recording Studios Megatrax Studios Yelp Page A-list Music Artist Page |
#6
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Re: 44.1 kHz vs. 48 kHz - why not use the higher?
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http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-thin...important.html Sampling rate conversion is simplified if rates are integer multiples of each other. Here are some interesting charts comparing SRC with different manufacturers: http://src.infinitewave.ca/
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Park The Transfer Lab at Video Park Analog tape to Pro Tools transfers, 1/4"-2" http://www.videopark.com MacPro 6 core 3.33 GHz, OS 10.12.1, 8 GB RAM, PT12.6.1, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, PreSonus DigiMax, MC Control V3.5, dual displays, Neumann U-47, Tab V76 mic pre, RCA 44BX and 77DX, MacBook Pro 9,1, 2.3 Mhz, i7, CBS Labs Audimax and Volumax. Ampex 440B half-track and four-track, 351 tube full-track mono, MM-1100 16-track. |
#7
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Re: 44.1 kHz vs. 48 kHz - why not use the higher?
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Go ahead and try your sample dropping approach and let us know how it sounds. Today those factors are irrelevant in the better algos. |
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Re: 44.1 kHz vs. 48 kHz - why not use the higher?
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ABSOLUTELY NO PROGRAM EVER DIVIDES BY 2 TO DOWNSAMPLE. NONE. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. IT IS A MYTH. This is exactly the reason why I posted about this. There are so many people that still don't understand how this actually works or have been told incorrectly and then adhere to the wrong information as though it is fact. Do this little math problem for me please. 44100 x 160 = ? 48000 x 147 = ? What are the answers to the equations above? Noticing anything similar about the answers? What do you think that means in terms of sample rate conversion?
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Derek Jones Sound Engineer / Producer / Composer Derek Jones Linkedin Megatrax Recording Studios Megatrax Studios Yelp Page A-list Music Artist Page |
#9
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Re: 44.1 kHz vs. 48 kHz - why not use the higher?
and by the way, that DVinfo forum link is sooooo far off the mark it's scary. They guy is telling people to add DITHER when sample rate converting!?!?!?! Wow... that is scary. These guys in that link are all novice/hobbyist people. Don't put too much stock into what they are saying, because after reading through the thread pretty much all of the info they mentioned was wrong (except for the fact that DVDs use 48KHz and CDs use 44.1KHz).
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Derek Jones Sound Engineer / Producer / Composer Derek Jones Linkedin Megatrax Recording Studios Megatrax Studios Yelp Page A-list Music Artist Page |
#10
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Re: 44.1 kHz vs. 48 kHz - why not use the higher?
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http://www.mathsisfun.com/least-comm...iple-tool.html To expand on my equations I did in the other post...let's try these. 44100 x 320 = ? 48000 x 294 = ? 88200 x 160 = ? 96000 x 147 = ? And then do these... 44100 x 640 = ? 48000 x 588 = ? 88200 x 320 = ? 96000 x 294 = ? 176400 x 160 = ? 192000 x 147 = ? Do you see any patterns here? And by the way, this last group of numbers is what PTHD uses. Most other DAWs (and I think LE) use the the second to last group of numbers. Enjoy BUT!!! none of this will actually effect the audio quality of the signal. It is the Filter used at the nyquist of the destination sampling rate that effects the fidelity. The better that filter is, the better the conversion will sound. It has nothing to do with the "math" involved in converting the numbers from one rate to the other. There will never be any "decimal points" or "rounding" or "rounding errors" or "rounding distortion" when converting sampling rates. It is an integer to integer equation and for a computer is EXTREMELY simple. And it is easier to write the code for the ONE equation to handle all the sampling rates, than to have a separate equation for each sample rate combination. With that last group of numbers, you can easily go from ANY of the chosen sampling rates to ANY OTHER chosen sampling rate with one basic equation.
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Derek Jones Sound Engineer / Producer / Composer Derek Jones Linkedin Megatrax Recording Studios Megatrax Studios Yelp Page A-list Music Artist Page |
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