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  #1  
Old 07-30-2015, 10:41 AM
giroserex giroserex is offline
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Default Advice regarding TDM plugins.

Hello all I am a brand new member so go easy on meh.

Intro;
To give a feel how much research I have done on music craft, as a hobby, I am a british 23 year old guy who basically understands consumer 8track tape decks were a thing in USA for a while, reel to reels are expensive to maintain and find Micheal Gerzon somewhat of a legend imo.

Really it is a question how to approach TDM mixing. I realise it can get expensive (especially macs) and so don't know where to start.
I know I'll need hardware to enable TDM functionality but there are many vendors, plug-ins amongst the avid/PT/digidesign family tree, which spans almost 25years now.
I'm only really interested in minimum requirement (read: cheapest) to get TDM functionality.
I really don't mind if the hardware is OLD or if the plugins are out-dated!
For example, there are plenty of used dsp cards on the web .

The critera I was interested in are;
- 96khz mixing capability, which I realize was introduced with ProTools HD in 2002.

- TDM processing access obviously. I doubt newer plugin bundles will work with old hardware, so I wonder if there is an archive of old plugins available on the web? with the dsp cards, it's not clear how expandable they are.

- PCIe interface, but I see there are various other connectivity options available including firewire and SCSI.

- 48 fixed point!
As far as I am aware TDM has always used fixed point processing in the past and this is the main reason I am interested in using TDM. Please don't bug me about why.

- Older DSP cards may have limited processing ability; being able to tap off CPU would be advantageous but isn't essential.

So what is the cheapest route? I'm not really interested in AD converter boxes with 'multiple inputs either, nor any conversion for that matter, just mixing functionality.

I'm hoping avid old-timers on here can help me navigate this interfacing maze that surrounds TDM.

Thanks in advance
God speed

EDIT; I'm aware that TDM is not my only choice, for instance there is Duende PCIe Studio Pack by SSL, which comprises of PCIe card and provides a few plugins.

Last edited by giroserex; 07-31-2015 at 04:54 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2015, 12:28 PM
Craig F Craig F is offline
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Default Re: Advice regarding TDM plugins.

Welcome,
You have left off one factor. Building and maintaining a computer (hardware and OS) that is compatible with the version of HD cards, Pro Tools software and plug-ins you want to use.

If you want to use HD TDM cards you have to use mating interfaces on the DigLink ports of the cards (Digi 96 or 192, Avid HD I/O, Avid Omni or some 3rd party manufactures that have made compatible interfaces, again this relates to software version choice).
You can not use any other USB, Firewire, or other PCIe card interface with the TDM environment.

My recommendation would be to get a Mac Pro 4.1 or 5.1 with OSX 10.8.6, PT 10HD software and 1 or 2 PCIe HD cards and an Omni interface.
This can probably all be found as a working system in one package.
If you're a Windows guy my software, card, and interface recommendations stay the same but I will defer to those that have more experience with Windows OS versions and compatible computers.
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2015, 02:18 PM
Raoul23 Raoul23 is offline
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Default Re: Advice regarding TDM plugins.

I love my TDM rig I'm on windows 7, with a Magma Chassis and 7 PCI cards in running Pro Tools 10HD with a blue face digi 192. It's very reliable and stable and tracking with plugins is great as latency is not even a question I need to ask my self. eBay would be the best place to pick up system like this at a great price :)
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2015, 06:50 PM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Re: Advice regarding TDM plugins.

ebay, reverb.com great resources....


Cheapest way in? HD2/3 with HD8 software - Mac or win (make sure all software versions are compatible)

with a 96 or 192 to start.....


Debating the same move my self.....
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2015, 08:17 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Advice regarding TDM plugins.

I have a MacPro 1.1 that I upgraded the CPU to an 8-core for 150.00, doubled the geekbenh score, which is now 10,500!

I just bought a MacPro 4.1, for 450.00, that I will be upgrading to a six core for around 200.00 more.

The 8 core 4.1's, can be upgraded to 12-cores, with a geekbench score over 27,000!
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2015, 03:45 PM
giroserex giroserex is offline
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Default Re: Advice regarding TDM plugins.

Hello and thanks for the warm welcome.

Hi Craig, I happen to have OSX from on a machine given to me from a friend but I'm unsure whether to use this or not. I've yet to check what version it is but I would prefer windows.

I see multiple recommendations, HD 2/3 HD8 and 10.

Really I think older is a sensible choice... unless there's a good deal, guess patience is key here.
Main thought now involves whether it's possible to find like a big pack of old plugins to use with HD2 for example? Not interested in fancy UI.

I wonder if plugins already supplied with HD2/4 (if any?) would be sufficient for basics, i.e. for mixdown or down sampling for digital distrib..

Thanks though for helpful advice so far.
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2016, 09:18 PM
ajazzie ajazzie is offline
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Default Re: Advice regarding TDM plugins.

"I really don't mind if the hardware is OLD or if the plugins are out-dated!"

Here is an opinion which I always get flamed for, however here you go.

Ive been around for a while and have watched so much transpire here, its seriously a chasing technology and "new this and that" stuff argument when new is better always?

Now its not really practical to go back to old hardwatre and operating systems, that's not what I suggest,,,,
However I have to say I still use an old mix 24 system, tried a native HD and was luke warm on a few things.

I always refrain from getting into arguments here, though if you are on a strict budget some old gear can certainly be found cheap.

That said it certainly ties your hands to new options, however if its just CD quality then I don't give much to the HD is better argument. My old TDM has 16 years on it, it does an amazing job and I would put it against any other cd out there.

Its about technique and the source, the rest is practice. Don't get too trapped in the New, my opinion is Digi/ Avid have got too expensive and they continually force you to go with them.

If it works, then it works, Ide love an old Rupert Desk!!!
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  #8  
Old 06-28-2016, 10:28 AM
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John_Toolbox John_Toolbox is offline
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Default Re: Advice regarding TDM plugins.

I think a used HD TDM system is a great deal at the current used prices, the main issue is trying to figure out all the hardware you need and getting the correct OS and plugin versions to work with it. Many of the plugins compatible with TDM are no longer sold or supported by the manufacturer, and while there are used licenses for sale, sometimes the seller doesn't have the installers.

If you can find someone selling a complete turnkey system it will cost more than buying each piece separately, but you will be up and running a lot faster, and then you can always expand the system as you need.

The most basic turnkey system will need the following:
1. computer with correct OS and pro tools version installed
2. USB ilok
3. Correct Pro Tools HD software license for your software version (needs to be transferred from seller into your name, and then put on the ilok.
4. At least one HD core card (You probably want to have 3 cards minimum to get any serious work done, so a Core and 2 accels would be an ideal system)
5. At least one interface (192 or 96 series)
6. A digilink cable for the interface

If you have more than one card, you need a TDM flex cable to go with each additional card, and an available PCIe slot for each card (or PCIx if you are using an older setup)

I would stay away from the older PCIx HD cards at this point, the PCIe ones will work with newer PT, OS, and computer versions... so they will be much easier to find plugins for.

Otherwise, you might be better off just buying the latest version of Pro Tools (non HD) and using a simpler interface since you mention you don't need lot's of IO. IMHO the biggest advantage of a TDM system today is it's ability to have lots of IO. The TDM plugins are nice, but not necessary to get the job done, there are a lot of great native plugins and modern computers can handle a pretty big session.
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  #9  
Old 06-29-2016, 10:03 PM
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justinkr justinkr is offline
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Default Re: Advice regarding TDM plugins.

Never had TDM card install on my mac pro. I use Avid mbox hookup to my preamp>compressor>mixer and use waves plugin. I happy with it. Less money and good quality


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  #10  
Old 06-29-2016, 11:35 PM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Re: Advice regarding TDM plugins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giroserex View Post
- 48 fixed point!
As far as I am aware TDM has always used fixed point processing in the past and this is the main reason I am interested in using TDM. Please don't bug me about why..

I always enjoy statements like this.....

"Don't bug me about why...." :)
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HDX - PT12.5.1 - HD I/O 16x8x8
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D-Command Main Unit - 'Ole Blue


http://www.sknoteaudio.com/ plugins rock and are affordable.
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