What do you think Pt 12.4 will include?

[deanrichard]

Actually, I was a software engineer and team lead for 25 years. I've written hundreds of thousands of lines of code. I know exactly what I'm talking about, and with all due respect I have far more experience than as a beta tester. I wrote production quality software for a living.

It is exactly that simple, if the code is written properly. It should be written such that a feature can be turned on and off with a compiler switch. If it's not that simple, someone screwed up.

In the case of VCAs, someone screwed up.

Originally Posted by DJ Hellfire

People who aren't involved with software development usually always naively think like this. But trust me, it is a HUGE PITA keeping up with different versions of the same software and keeping them all up to date. I deal with this all the time as a beta tester for Akai. Every time you add or remove something from the software, several other features/functions can be affected, and sometimes in a major way. Even ones that may not make sense on why it was affected. All versions have to be thoroughly tested and retested. Different installers have to be made and uploaded to the server for download. The website has to be updated to show all the different version updates. User manuals have to be written for each version, or a single user manual has to tell the differences between versions. And these are just a few things I'm mentioning. It's a massive amount of work to maintain.

[deanrichard]

No, the industry shift has not occurred, and maybe it never will. That is my point. PT is still living in the same world it has been living for a very long time. In the example I gave, the whole world shifted from text based word processing to GUI based. That's a huge paradigm shift. IMO, that's what it will take for PT to lose market share, or else continued management incompetence for a very, very long time.

The DAW is becoming a mature application type. There are other DAWs that do many things better than PT, and some have features that PT is still trying to catch up with. But the differences are not significant enough to unseat an industry standard. Everything that needs to be done can be done in PT, and there are certainly things it does better than other DAWs as well.

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek

My point is, hasn't this shift already occurred? Apparently, there are many DAWs out there that destroy PT. Freeze is, what?... 15 years old after all and PT is just getting it. And yet we are all still here.

So, it has to be bigger than that is what I am saying.

[Wall2Wall]

The audio/video industry shifted years ago when more powerful home/project room computers became a reality for native. Avid's stock prices dipped around PT 7.4 and have never recovered. It may be a missed opportunity that Avid did not make themselves available for sale during that time period the way Steinberg, Emagic, and others did to survive.

[YYR123]

well shut my mouth....track freeze in PT12.4 in 2015 no less....

[DJ Hellfire]

Originally Posted by deanrichard

Actually, I was a software engineer and team lead for 25 years. I've written hundreds of thousands of lines of code. I know exactly what I'm talking about, and with all due respect I have far more experience than as a beta tester. I wrote production quality software for a living.

It is exactly that simple, if the code is written properly. It should be written such that a feature can be turned on and off with a compiler switch. If it's not that simple, someone screwed up.

In the case of VCAs, someone screwed up.

Doesn't really sound exactly like you know what you're talking about. Have you actually done work developing a complex multi-track audio recording application that must also have bi-directional communication with several different models of complimenting hardware? Having the experience you claim you have, you should know a lot better than to give the illusion that coding audio is as simple as you're trying to make it sound.

And please do not get it twisted. I am not "just a beta tester." I am actually involved in the development some of Akai's software, and while I do not do any coding, I know things are not as simple as you are sitting here and saying, as is exactly evident by the VCA issue! If things were "as simple as hitting an on/off switch" there wouldn't be instances in PT 10 where gain reduction meters and input monitoring would randomly show up in vanilla, among other things.

[deanrichard]

Wow. Yes, I know exactly what I'm talking about. I've worked on projects every bit, or more, complex than Pro Tools. I wrote communication protocol drivers for factory automation systems. Real time duplex communications. I wrote communications software for a wireless meter reading system. Real time logistics software. Electronic payments systems. And on and on. Yes, it was a few years ago, and I'm rusty, but proper coding techniques remain the same.

You completely missed the point of my post. No, coding audio software is not simple. I've often said on this board how complex and difficult coding audio is. But isolating a feature is the same whether writing automation software or audio software. The real issue is of someone knows how to write the code properly so that a feature to be included is isolated. We're all human, we make mistakes. But if it had been done properly, turning an HD feature on for the vanilla version really and truly is as simple as changing a compiler switch or #define directive.

Someone screwed up when they wrote the VCA code. They didn't realize there was an internal dependency on other HD features, such that the VCA code couldn't be turned on by itself. A fundamental mistake, but it never would have been tested properly prior to that point because 12.x was the first version that used VCAs without the other HD features. Perhaps if PT had used a beta tester like you it would have been caught before the product was released.

Originally Posted by DJ Hellfire

Doesn't really sound exactly like you know what you're talking about. Have you actually done work developing a complex multi-track audio recording application that must also have bi-directional communication with several different models of complimenting hardware? Having the experience you claim you have, you should know a lot better than to give the illusion that coding audio is as simple as you're trying to make it sound.

And please do not get it twisted. I am not "just a beta tester." I am actually involved in the development some of Akai's software, and while I do not do any coding, I know things are not as simple as you are sitting here and saying, as is exactly evident by the VCA issue! If things were "as simple as hitting an on/off switch" there wouldn't be instances in PT 10 where gain reduction meters and input monitoring would randomly show up in vanilla, among other things.

[DJ Hellfire]

Originally Posted by deanrichard

Wow. Yes, I know exactly what I'm talking about. I've worked on projects every bit, or more, complex than Pro Tools. I wrote communication protocol drivers for factory automation systems. Real time duplex communications. I wrote communications software for a wireless meter reading system. Real time logistics software. Electronic payments systems. And on and on. Yes, it was a few years ago, and I'm rusty, but proper coding techniques remain the same.

You completely missed the point of my post. No, coding audio software is not simple. I've often said on this board how complex and difficult coding audio is. But isolating a feature is the same whether writing automation software or audio software. The real issue is of someone knows how to write the code properly so that a feature to be included is isolated. We're all human, we make mistakes. But if it had been done properly, turning an HD feature on for the vanilla version really and truly is as simple as changing a compiler switch or #define directive.

Someone screwed up when they wrote the VCA code. They didn't realize there was an internal dependency on other HD features, such that the VCA code couldn't be turned on by itself. A fundamental mistake, but it never would have been tested properly prior to that point because 12.x was the first version that used VCAs without the other HD features. Perhaps if PT had used a beta tester like you it would have been caught before the product was released.

Perhaps there is also the likelihood that these features were never really intended to be opened up to native users, and that it was a last ditch effort to keep customers interested, which caused complications in the "unlocking"?

[deanrichard]

Give it up.

You don't understand software development. Testing, maybe, but you're making me skeptical with these off the wall responses.

Features that are in one version and not the other, by design, must be capable of being turned on and off. Otherwise they would be in vanilla from day one. The only other alternative is to have a completely separate codebase, and I can assure that's not the case with PT.

Originally Posted by DJ Hellfire

Perhaps there is also the likelihood that these features were never really intended to be opened up to native users, and that it was a last ditch effort to keep customers interested, which caused complications in the "unlocking"?

[mesaone]

Doesn't look like he's arguing, it looks like he was asking your opinion about the one thing.

[hacha]

When release?