Madi installation with 192io

[maximumimpactmedia]

I have read the MADI Guide. However, there is no discussion about how to install MADI with the IO interfaces.

Currently, I have one HD/TDM Core card connected via Digilink cable into 192IO primary port and another DigiLink cable going from its expansion port to the primary port of a second 192IO

I want to install a MADI unit
1. Option 1 would be to use the ADAT out of each 192IO to the MADI

2. Option 2 would be to somehow daisy chain the MADI with the two 192io units using a digilink mini to digi link adapter cable.

Option 2 would keep the 2 ADAT out ports on the 192io free

How is the MADI daisy chained?

Do I go from the HD core card to the primary of MADI and its primary to the first 192IO primary and then expansion port to the second 192io

Or do I keep my current configuration and go from the expansion port of the 2nd 192io to the MADI primary port?

Or would be better just to forget the daisy chaining and connect the MADI using the ADAT ports

Perhaps, I could then use the ADAT out ports on the MADI to my legacy equipment needing ADAT IN

BTW, I am using the MADI coax out for PT audio to a Black magic Design ATEM HD TV studio ISO video switcher @ 48k/24

Thank you

[JFreak]

Avid HD Madi is a 64-channel interface, which obviously has two DigiLink ports and requires two HD/TDM cards to physically connect.

[Darryl Ramm]

The Avid MADI guide has a clear description of how to connect the box to an DigiLink system, and explains most of what you need to know. But you seem to have some fundamental misunderstandings here that are confusing you.

MADI optical is not ADAT optical, you cannot connect them directly, they are different things, with very different capabilities, running on different physical media. TOSLINK for ADAT vs OM3 multimode fiber with SC connector for typical MADI optical). No MADI box ever connects directly to ADAT.

But if you are using a Blackmagic ATEM HD8 then the MADI is all coax and MADI optical is irrelevant.

ADAT only ever provides up to 8 channels per TOSLINK at base sample rates, MADI provides 58 or 64 channels (depending on setup) at base sample rates. You would require a suitable converter box and 8 eight ADAT TOSLINK connections to carry one MADI connection worth of channels.

A single DigiLink connection carries at most 32x32 IO. The Avid MADI box is 64x64 IO, you need two dedicated DigiLink connections to deliver all its IO. What the MADI guide maybe does not make clear is if you say we’re to daisy chain one of those DigiLink ports off say a HD I/O you lose the 16 channels that the HD I/O is using.

The Avid MADI box is only a DigiLink interface, it is not a stand alone converter. you can’t say use it as a stand alone MADI optical to MADi coaxial converter/bridge. You have to get it connected to DigiLink as the MADI User Guide describes.

What exactly are you doing with this? Just be sure it makes sense in the first place, for many applications I would be running away from DigiLink anything. And if you only have a HD/TDM 1 setup you are likely underpowered in TDM DSP let alone DigiLink connectivity. What exactly are you doing? That needs this and the 192IO? Providing monitor mixes to musical talent and a live mix into the Blackmagic box for broadcast? RME has a little USB 2 MADIface interface for example if you just need MADI connectivity.

I believe the BlackMagic ATEM HD MADI only uses some fraction of the 64 MADI channels, you should be able to work this out and not need a full 2X DigiLink connection to the Avid MADI box.

[maximumimpactmedia]

Thank you for your time and effort. I am so glad that I found somebody who knows about these things. I certainly agree that I have some misunderstandings and confusion. It would have been helpful if I had a wonderful person like you to help sort this out beforehand.

I have a HD/TDM 1 system which has two 192io, 32 channels in/32 out analog.
I know that the HD/TDM is a legacy product but it does the job at a budget that our nonprofit can afford.
What I want to do is send an audio feed from the HD/TDM system to the ATEM system for live streaming when we record using the HD/TDM system

Since the ATEM accepts 16 channels at 48k/24bits via MADI coax, I (perhaps errantly) assumed that it would be preferable than the ATEM receiving a stereo audio feed/mix from the HD/TDM
I therefore bought a HD MADI on Reverb

I purchased a dual MADI optical cable from a large, reputable audio dealer telling him that wanted to connect the HD MADI to my two 192io. I thought that the MADI optical cable went into each of the optical ports on each of my two 192IO, which the sales rep confirmed.

I think that you are saying that that the optical ports on the 192io are ADAT optical, not MADI optical. Re-reading HD 192io guide seems to confirm this.

I am re-reading MADI_GUIDE_v81_68724
p. 9 "MADI provides 2 Primary DigiLink Ports. The Primary port is where the DigiLink Mini to DigiLink cable connects a ProTools|HD card to HD MADI. Each Primary port sends and receives up to 32 channels to and from the ProTools cards"
p. 11 has diagrams about how to connect MADI to 1 HD core card and 1 ACCEL card. But there is nothing about how to connect the 192IO units afterwards.
this is all that I can find in the guide about connecting the MADI to the HD/TDM system .

Please advise me about i do this when I have two 192io units, one unit primary connected to the HD Core card, the 2nd unit connected to the expansion port of the first unit

otherwise you are saying that I might use some RME MADI interface or forget the MADI and just use a stereo feed.
thanks

[maximumimpactmedia]

I suppose what you also might be saying is that MADI ONLY connects to a HD core and/or accel card so that perhaps I would have to install a second HD core card (if possible) or an accel card and connect it to the madi for at least 16 channels out

[Darryl Ramm]

Yes that is exactly what I said.

And Digilink is 32x32 I/O, so if you have two boxes connected to the single link you are done, unless you add more Digilink cards.

But what are you trying to do? Is it worth the hassle/expense vs other options to get MADI? And spend more money to be further trapped on old Digilink hardware?

[maximumimpactmedia]

Do just to confirm, that I could keep the two 192ios on the HD core card

I could add an accel card/flex cable and then connect one of the MADI primary ports to it for up to 32 channels though I only need 16

At this point, I don't how much to recoup the cost of the madi; some vendor wants to give me only 33% of what I paid used. Accel cards are relatively inexpensive on Reverb

As much as you disdain digi link and HD/TDM systems, I can't afford an entirely newer system

[JFreak]

No, for two 192's and one MADI you need three cards (2x16 = 1 digilink for 192's and 2x32 = 2 digilinks for MADI) which means 96x96 I/O.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by maximumimpactmedia

Do just to confirm, that I could keep the two 192ios on the HD core card

I could add an accel card/flex cable and then connect one of the MADI primary ports to it for up to 32 channels though I only need 16

At this point, I don't how much to recoup the cost of the madi; some vendor wants to give me only 33% of what I paid used. Accel cards are relatively inexpensive on Reverb

As much as you disdain digi link and HD/TDM systems, I can't afford an entirely newer system

I have explained it clearly, but since Janne is here offering incorrect advice because he is not following the detail here I’ll state it again. You can connect the Digidesign MADI via one DigiLink connection and get 32x32 MADI IO or you can connect by two DigiLink connections and get 64x64 MADI IO. Lots of folks used to run these MADI boxes with only one DigiLink to get to say 32 channel audio consoles. Since I suspect you can get away with 32x32 MADI IO with your switcher you could use one DigiLink connection on one additional TDM card. But you tell me, it’s your video switcher and setup.

And again, I don’t know what you are doing here with this. A HD1 or HD2 is going to be underpowered with DSP for many applications and potentially have high latency if using native plugins, and more so as you add more channels and may need to increase the HW buffer size. So maybe you should upgrade to a HD3 for the DSP alone. I can't guess.

I might have been a good idea to ask before buying stuff. Hopefully you can get your setup to do what you need.