Pro Tools 2019 !

[midnightrambler]

If I didn't do this for a living, and hadn't been using PT for 20 years, I'm not sure I would consider ProTools as a first DAW anymore. I've been messing with Ableton Live recently and it kicks ProTools all over the the shop in a myriad of ways. I don't say this lightly - I've been a PT fanboy since 1997.

[Akiz]

Originally Posted by octatonic

Feel better now you've shouted at a stranger across the internet?

My 'assumptions' are not stupid- they are accurate.
I've been doing this for more than 30 years, worked for numerous manufacturers as well as engineering and producing actual records and I know the pro audio industry better than you do, I'd wager.

Shouted to whom? LOL!!!

Good for you, congrats. Also defending this whole mess will grand you a badge too.
At this role you excel, i have to say, you do it better than me, indeed!

Are you work for Avid my dear? If so, don't hide behind a user alias and come forward with your name to take the responsibility of your claims.
If that stands true and your words represent how employees think, you just prove to the public what a shoddy company this is!

Otherwise, you might be some reseller or someone who benefits from this company in other ways....maybe got an NFR license and don't pay any fees, so you have nothing to loose....all is an assumption
I understand that when people express their negative experience and cause a fuss about it, might hurt your "business", but that's life as you said, live with it.

If you like to pay and get nothing in return, great for you, most people will disagree with you though. Because that is what happens with Avid now! I don't care if they have issues to solve, this is their job, they collect annual fee upfront to deliver in a specific time frame and they DON'T, people got angry etc...
Negativity is to be expected, that is life!

When you order something on-line, pay upfront but your order never arrives or the seller doesn't care much, to get your order fulfilled because your order is as low as $100, you are happy with this? Of course you are, because you are happy of how Avid works, same ethics right?? How hypocritical...

Also If you feel cool, been embarrassed in front of your clients because the product you bought doesn't work as expected, good for you, for many people out there this is not acceptable!

Last but not least, trying to prove how professional you are and how long you do it, blah blah, doesn't automatically makes your claims valid. It is just a usual trick to dazzle some readers of your post, but i don't bite....i might be longer that you in that field.

Have to prepare myself for a session, i hope that ProTools will not (LOL) give me the -9173 error again today, otherwise i will print your post and hand it over to my client when he will look again at me asking why this happened. Thank you, for having an excuse to use!


Cheers!

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by rinky

May... that's close to half a year later.

So logically, the $400 subscription rate should be cut in half as well....

AMEN


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[jasonkalman]

Originally Posted by octatonic

Feel better now you've shouted at a stranger across the internet?

My 'assumptions' are not stupid- they are accurate.
I've been doing this for more than 30 years, worked for numerous manufacturers as well as engineering and producing actual records and I know the pro audio industry better than you do, I'd wager.

Updating to Mojave isn't something that figures into many professional facilities.
They might not go to Mojave for another 2 years.
Avid have never promised Mojave compatibility by X date.

They had an expected date for release that was missed- it isn't binding and anyone who thinks they are owed Mojave compatibility by a certain date is simply wrong.

And to your point of 'A semi-professional's or hobbyist's money, have different colour than the high profile "PRO" for Avid? Seriously? What an insult! '

How naive.
If you buy a HDX 3 + S6 you get a different level of support to a Pro Tools native user.
Of course you do.
If a hobbiest buys a HDX3 and an S6 they will get a different level of support from their dealer and from the manufacturer than if they spend $500 on a DAW.
That's life.

It is the same in the console market and in most other pro audio companies.
It is the same when you fly on a plane.
it is the same when you buy a car.

The more you spend the better support you get and the more attention you get from the company.
I'm sorry if this is news to you.

That doesn't mean they are holding their hobbiest and semi-pro customers in contempt, as you seem to indicate.

Mojave compatibility is obviously something they are working on and it will come.
How about dialling down the rhetoric?

Pro Tools works under specific configurations that are well publicised.
If you choose to go outside the recommended configuration then that is on you.

I'm personally affected by this- I have a 2018 Mac that PT limps along under Mojave and I cannot roll back to an earlier OS on that machine.
I live with it.
It is frustrating but there are workarounds.

I still have my previous computer to run under High Sierra when I need to work in Pro Tools- fortunately only half of what I do requires it.

I think Avid's reputation is on the line here to be honest. If they deliver a bug free 2019.5 release that fixes the inability to efficiently use a powerful computer's CPU/RAM along with Mojave compatibility, that will go a long way in rebuilding faith with their clientele. If on the other hand, they release a half-baked update that doesn't address these glaring issues, many of us will be forced to move to a different DAW ecosystem. HDX with TB3 latency is phenomenally low, but the ability to use VIs efficiently is holding PTs back big time. Many competing DAWs have been able to address this issue and work with VIs extremely efficiently. Are they as good at editing audio, no. Do they have the rock solid integration between software and hardware, no. However, they also don't have a $400 a year subscription fee that doesn't offer much. Many of us are frustrated because we've invested tens of thousands of dollars in Avid hardware only to run a software that can't run VIs efficiently. This has been addressed ad nauseam. I expect PTs to address this in the 2019.5 update. If they do not address it, perhaps it is time to sell the hardware and go with a system (UA for example) with Logic X and get the level of VI support needed. Logic X does not have the tight editing capability that PTs has, but it can run VIs on your computer with very minimal CPU footprint. You can do whole VI mixes with Logic X without taxing out your computer, something PTs cannot do and never has been able to do. I'm hoping this is addressed in the next update or for me at least it will be time to seriously consider why I'm staying in the PTs ecosystem.

Perhaps I'll keep PTs for recording audio and mixing only, while using Logic X for the heavy lifting of recording VIs. Once the session is done I can bounce the finished tracks to PTs and do the mixing there. It is not an elegant solution, but it is an effective work around if you use tons of VIs. If only PTs could use VIs efficiently, we wouldn't be forced to use this workaround. That is the #1 thing I need Avid to address in this upcoming update. Computer technology has come way to far for Avid to not efficiently use a computer's CPU. Buying more HDX cards and an S6 won't fix that. Buying tons of outboard gear would fix that, but the cost would be insane. An eventide 9000 is $6,000. Add some elite hardware compressors, eqs and state-of the art keyboard hardware (I'm thinking Nord) to run VIs would cost another $10-15K. Or you could switch to a DAW that can do all these things within the software natively ITB without a subscription fee.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by jasonkalman

Perhaps I'll keep PTs for recording audio and mixing only, while using Logic X for the heavy lifting of recording VIs. Once the session is done I can bounce the finished tracks to PTs and do the mixing there. It is not an elegant solution, but it is an effective work around if you use tons of VIs.

That's what majority of heavy VI users are doing

Originally Posted by jasonkalman

If only PTs could use VIs efficiently, we wouldn't be forced to use this workaround.

True :)

[uptheoctave]

Originally Posted by Akiz

Shouted to whom? LOL!!!

Good for you, congrats. Also defending this whole mess will grand you a badge too.
At this role you excel, i have to say, you do it better than me, indeed!

Are you work for Avid my dear?
snip

I'm not your dear and I'm no apologist for Avid, nor have I ever worked for them.
If you do even the tiniest of googling you'll be able to find out who I've worked for. I've got nothing to prove to you.

If you look at my earlier comments in the thread you'll see I have my own frustrations with Avid, but moaning about a late software update is just a waste of time.

I've done a lot of tech support over the years and I've encountered people like you before- the unreasonable ones with a nasty and patronising streak.
You'll get no help from me about your issues.

Maybe if you were a little bit nicer and less arrogant then perhaps people would be more inclined to help you?

[Akiz]

Originally Posted by octatonic

I'm not your dear and I'm no apologist for Avid, nor have I ever worked for them.
If you do even the tiniest of googling you'll be able to find out who I've worked for. I've got nothing to prove to you.

If you look at my earlier comments in the thread you'll see I have my own frustrations with Avid, but moaning about a late software update is just a waste of time.

I've done a lot of tech support over the years and I've encountered people like you before- the unreasonable ones with a nasty and patronising streak.
You'll get no help from me about your issues.

Maybe if you were a little bit nicer and less arrogant then perhaps people would be more inclined to help you?

You're not Avid's apologist? Sorry, dear co-poster (can i use this term, or that offends you too!?!) but what you wrote did exactly that, you also claimed that your info is accurate.. Accurate in what extend i might ask, since you're not affiliated with them?
Probably wanted to give some credibility to support your opinion, as an inside info? LOL!

I don't care who you are, or who you've worked for, it is absolutely irrelevant in that case. You still insist to use this lame way to enhance your writings...so pathetic.

So, to sum it up, for you, as a tech support person (in some tech company), it is unreasonable for the clients who have paid upfront for a product that is faulty, has unsolved issues for years, has no support for current O.S. in a major platform like Mac, lack of new features e.t.c.... to be mad for your company's incompetence and unreliability? On top of that, you refuse to help paying customers, name them arrogant, because theyy dare to complain about your fiasco? Wow, i'm sure you are the employee of the month, many months in a row, for sure!

I never asked any help from you, are you referring to another person maybe??

Cheers!

[uptheoctave]

Originally Posted by jasonkalman

I think Avid's reputation is on the line here to be honest. If they deliver a bug free 2019.5 release that fixes the inability to efficiently use a powerful computer's CPU/RAM along with Mojave compatibility, that will go a long way in rebuilding faith with their clientele. If on the other hand, they release a half-baked update that doesn't address these glaring issues, many of us will be forced to move to a different DAW ecosystem. HDX with TB3 latency is phenomenally low, but the ability to use VIs efficiently is holding PTs back big time. Many competing DAWs have been able to address this issue and work with VIs extremely efficiently. Are they as good at editing audio, no. Do they have the rock solid integration between software and hardware, no. However, they also don't have a $400 a year subscription fee that doesn't offer much. Many of us are frustrated because we've invested tens of thousands of dollars in Avid hardware only to run a software that can't run VIs efficiently. This has been addressed ad nauseam. I expect PTs to address this in the 2019.5 update. If they do not address it, perhaps it is time to sell the hardware and go with a system (UA for example) with Logic X and get the level of VI support needed. Logic X does not have the tight editing capability that PTs has, but it can run VIs on your computer with very minimal CPU footprint. You can do whole VI mixes with Logic X without taxing out your computer, something PTs cannot do and never has been able to do. I'm hoping this is addressed in the next update or for me at least it will be time to seriously consider why I'm staying in the PTs ecosystem.

Perhaps I'll keep PTs for recording audio and mixing only, while using Logic X for the heavy lifting of recording VIs. Once the session is done I can bounce the finished tracks to PTs and do the mixing there. It is not an elegant solution, but it is an effective work around if you use tons of VIs. If only PTs could use VIs efficiently, we wouldn't be forced to use this workaround. That is the #1 thing I need Avid to address in this upcoming update. Computer technology has come way to far for Avid to not efficiently use a computer's CPU. Buying more HDX cards and an S6 won't fix that. Buying tons of outboard gear would fix that, but the cost would be insane. An eventide 9000 is $6,000. Add some elite hardware compressors, eqs and state-of the art keyboard hardware (I'm thinking Nord) to run VIs would cost another $10-15K. Or you could switch to a DAW that can do all these things within the software natively ITB without a subscription fee.

I agree with most of what you have said- the VI thing is a pain in the ass and midi workflow is pretty amateur compared to other DAW's, but I just don't use it.
I'd love it if PT wound up with some of the features from Logic or Cubase but frankly it isn't going to happen and most people have workarounds and multiple DAW's.

Hybrid is essentially what I do and I know very few producer/engineers who work entirely in one DAW now.

I track bands on HDX, do composition/sequencing in Logic and Cubase, then fly the projects back into PT to mix, using a lot of hardware inserts & outboard.
It isn't seamless or perfect but I have a well configured and stable system and don't have endless -9173 issues like some people in the thread seem to.

I see a lot of Avid blame for what is essentially a lack of technical expertise.

Avid aren't blameless- there are issues and HDX is rapidly running out of road.
It works for a certain market sector though and that sector isn't really running a lot of VI's (post, studios that track & mix bands).

I can't help thinking that some of the people complaining here are simply using the wrong DAW.

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by octatonic

I agree with most of what you have said- the VI thing is a pain in the ass and midi workflow is pretty amateur compared to other DAW's, but I just don't use it.

I'd love it if PT wound up with some of the features from Logic or Cubase but frankly it isn't going to happen and most people have workarounds and multiple DAW's.



Hybrid is essentially what I do and I know very few producer/engineers who work entirely in one DAW now.



I track bands on HDX, do composition/sequencing in Logic and Cubase, then fly the projects back into PT to mix, using a lot of hardware inserts & outboard.

It isn't seamless or perfect but I have a well configured and stable system and don't have endless -9173 issues like some people in the thread seem to.



I see a lot of Avid blame for what is essentially a lack of technical expertise.



For those of us who have literally been doing this since the late 80's- before computers were a thing in studios and have been through every iteration of Digi/Avid hardware and all versions of PT I reckon PT12/2018 is the most stable a system I've had, with the possible exception of the last version of Logic to support DAE (which I really loved) when I had a HD3 and 4x192's.



Avid aren't blameless- there are issues and HDX is rapidly running out of road.

It works for a certain market sector though and that sector isn't really running a lot of VI's (post, studios that track & mix bands).



I can't help thinking that some of the people complaining here are simply using the wrong DAW.

I use Logic (€199 piece of software (free updates)) for VI’s more often. I need 2 channels of I/O for that but can have as much I/O as I want. I want to mix and edit audio in pro tools Ultimate (€2200 piece of software + €427 every year for support plan and updates) using outboard inserts and feeding a 24 channel summing mixer. Then I need a lot of I/O but it’s capped off at 32 unless I use AVID’s vintage digilink cards.

Don’t tell me about complaining without knowing which DAW to use. Thank you.





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[uptheoctave]

Originally Posted by RobertDorn

I use Logic (€199 piece of software (free updates)) for VI’s more often. I need 2 channels of I/O for that but can have as much I/O as I want. I want to mix and edit audio in pro tools Ultimate (€2200 piece of software + €427 every year for support plan and updates) using outboard inserts and feeding a 24 channel summing mixer. Then I need a lot of I/O but it’s capped off at 32 unless I use AVID’s vintage digilink cards.

I'm in the same boat- I paid for a HDX system knowing what the benefits and limitations are.
I get on with the job, as do most of Avid's customers.

I'm straddling halfway between HDX and Dante (hence using Focusrite Red/Rednet interfaces) and Dante is approaching the latency of HDX.

The 32 channel limit is a pain in the ass and clearly Avid are going to have to do something and fairly soon- but this constant griping about the current state of play isn't getting anyone anywhere.
Work with what you have and made some music- the issues that exist are still better than chopping up tape, or pulling mangled tape out of a DA88.

The reality is people either bought into the platform knowing the limitations, or they didn't research it.
Either way that isn't on Avid.

Continuing to whinge about it just ends up being a vicious little circle jerk where anyone with a contrary opinion is abused and accused of being a shill.
I'm actually a working producer/engineer who used to work for a few manufacturers, so I know how these organisations work and how they prioritise.

The sense of entitlement in this thread is simply unbelievable.

With that I'm going to get back to work- if people want to act like children then have at it, kids.