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  #1  
Old 04-09-2021, 12:07 PM
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EdgarRothermich EdgarRothermich is offline
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Default Playback Engine or Playback Ancient ?

There are always lots of requests and wishes on how to improved Pro Tools, but how high on the to-do list is the Playback Engine? Here are four issues:

-1- Name
This should be the easiest thing to "fix" and I'm surprised about this incorrect label. "Playback Engine" suggests that it affects the Playback, but what about the other side, Recording. It is always strange when explaining to a new user that the Playback Engine (also) selects the Audio Device that you use for recording.

-2- Separate Input Device - Output Device
This is just plain annoying. Pretty much every other DAW on the planet lets you select the Input Device and Output Device separately. That entire Aggregate Device operation shouldn't be necessary.

-3- Change Audio Device
Taking the nuisance to the next level. Whenever I change the "Playback Engine", I have to close the current Session and open it again. That is one of the reasons why I don't use Pro Tools in class anymore when demonstrating audio topics. Switching stuff around (especially with Zoom Meetings, for example, is just a PITA.


-4- Change Audio MIDI Setup
This is where Pro Tools is completely clueless. When changing the Audio Devices in the Audio MIDI Setup utility (adding Aggregate Device, adding/removing devices in Loopback), Pro Tools has no idea what is going on and you have to relaunch Pro Tools. With such a scenario, Logic Pro doesn't even blink, whatever you change regarding Audio Devices, it will be there when you open the popup menu in the Audio Preferences. Obviously, Pro Tools doesn't have a routine to check on what is going on behind the scene with Core Audio.
I know, AirPods are not necessarily the best choice for monitoring your Pro Tools Session, but it is a valid option when using Zoom, or the ZoomAudioDevice, pops in or out, regarding your setting, or the Loopback setup. These are just the modern-day audio scenarios that Pro Tools should be able to handle. Not everybody runs a big rig HDX system in their recording studio or dubbing stage.


It seems that Pro Tools was built and stuck with the concept of having its own audio engine with its own cards. Core Audio support came much later. But somehow, there is more to it than just using the Core Audio Driver.
ITB is almost the new normal and the complexity of audio drivers, virtual drivers, and all the stuff that is going on on the computer regarding audio is somehow ignored by the Pro Tool team. The app is just not flexible enough for this type of demand of modern audio production on your computer. And maybe "modern" is the key issue. Pro Tools is so old (with legacy code), it might be extremely complicated to update (or even touch) those areas.

Is there an official feedback page like Apple has to submit bugs and feature requests besides the annual survey conducted by Avid?
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2021, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: Playback Engine or Playback Ancient ?

As long as they don't screw up thr audio engine i'm totally fine. There are things that pro tools is best (at least for me): the GUI and the audio engine.
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Old 04-10-2021, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Playback Engine or Playback Ancient ?

Historically, PT using proprietary and closed-system audio frameworks has offered them advantages, but also disadvantages. You're illustrating some of those disadvantages. I understand, and am ok with, having to restart PT after certain alterations to the engine. Of course I'd rather *not* have to, but it opens quickly enough that it allows a coffee refill. Logic has the advantage of being more closely-fitted to the OS, just as Apple prefers it.
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Old 04-10-2021, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Playback Engine or Playback Ancient ?

Maybe this doesn’t really apply to your situation, but since I’m running a HDX system, there is no other audio device that I want to use with Pro Tools. So once I start Pro Tools, the HDX remains the audio card exclusively for Pro Tools. I can run PT with HDX and zoom simultaneously though. When running zoom simultaneously, I use the Soundsource app to assign the zoom output to a headphone output of one of my HDMI video monitors that is mixed in with my local audio. This way I can use PT, HDX and zoom at the same time. I use my Webcam mic for the zoom mic. For the far end audio participants to hear the Pro Tools mix output, I use Audiomovers to stream in HD to the browsers on the far end users computers. I do not share PT audio in the zoom call. As long as I and those on the far end are all using headphones and not speakers, we do not need to mute any mics or zoom calls because we avoid feedback or echo from the Pro Tools audio to the zoom call mic by using headphones. But I hear you that PT is not made to switch soundcards on the fly.
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Old 04-11-2021, 04:31 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Playback Engine or Playback Ancient ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Lambert View Post
Historically, PT using proprietary and closed-system audio frameworks has offered them advantages, but also disadvantages. You're illustrating some of those disadvantages. I understand, and am ok with, having to restart PT after certain alterations to the engine. Of course I'd rather *not* have to, but it opens quickly enough that it allows a coffee refill. Logic has the advantage of being more closely-fitted to the OS, just as Apple prefers it.
With an NVME drive it's so fast it barely gives you time to catch your breath. Really - is one going to make changes THAT often that you need to worry about the speed of a PT restart?


The name change and separating the in from the outs I can agree with but it's no biggie. I just get on with what I have to do the point I don't even care what it's called as long as it works as it should.
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Old 04-11-2021, 06:05 AM
huzzam huzzam is offline
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Default Re: Playback Engine or Playback Ancient ?

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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
With an NVME drive it's so fast it barely gives you time to catch your breath. Really - is one going to make changes THAT often that you need to worry about the speed of a PT restart?

Agreed... closing and reopening most sessions takes about 3-10 seconds on a modern system. And you don't need to quit the program, just a quick cmd-shift-W, cmd-shift-O closes and reopens, new audio driver in place.
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Old 04-11-2021, 06:15 AM
JingleDjango JingleDjango is offline
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Default Re: Playback Engine or Playback Ancient ?

I agree with every one of your criticisms but I also think there are more important issues to tackle first.
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  #8  
Old 04-11-2021, 08:57 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Playback Engine or Playback Ancient ?

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Originally Posted by JingleDjango View Post
I agree with every one of your criticisms but I also think there are more important issues to tackle first.
Amen brother, amen. What Edgar is on about is fly manure compared to real issues like sidechain delay comp for non-HD users.
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  #9  
Old 04-12-2021, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Playback Engine or Playback Ancient ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by huzzam View Post
Agreed... closing and reopening most sessions takes about 3-10 seconds on a modern system. And you don't need to quit the program, just a quick cmd-shift-W, cmd-shift-O closes and reopens, new audio driver in place.
I wish that were always the case. Most of my sessions are pretty VI-heavy, and some can take a minute or two to load, especially if using Lexicon reverbs which inject their own loading (and closing) delays.

It's not a big deal. It wasn't that long ago that I'd watch one of our post engineers double-click one of his massive sessions then leave for the bathroom while it opened (5+ minutes). And, yes, most audio-only sessions these days will pop up very quickly.

About the steps for switching audio drivers, your steps won't quit PT, only close and reopen the session. I can double check but I believe I'm required to quit the PT app before switching back to my Native Thunderbolt box -- a mere session reopen won't switch engines.
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Old 04-12-2021, 09:57 PM
capt kirk capt kirk is offline
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Default Re: Playback Engine or Playback Ancient ?

I had a post or 2 removed for making pointed comments about difficulty with repairing old propreietary code, cuz i worked on AMS audiofiles for years and saw it first hand.....so i'll shut up , hahaha
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