"Tape" speed

[archtop]

or B
bring to pt
out to analog at 15 ips
play at 7 1/2 ips
huh [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[gavspen]

I tried to do that using Digital Performer (I dont know much about PT) and they'll all correct, the results were ghastly.

What I eventually did was to record the material into a sampler from my 71/2ips deck. Now, if its original pitch in the sampler was, say, C4, just press C3 and it will come out one octave lower, half as fast, however you want to look at it. Now put that into PT (or DP) and there it is.

It is, to say the least, rather laborious and you might have to split the stuff into more than one sample and join it together later, but it works, without any degredation of the material.

Perhaps there is a more elegant solution, but I dont know it.

[Rail Jon Rogut]

Here's one thing you can try:

Record the tape playing back at twice the speed.. quit Pro Tools, then externally use a utility (similar to my Header Investigator for Windows) and halve the sample rate in the header (or resource fork) of the sound file.

Create a new session in PT and import the audio files, they'll be converted to the right sample rate and play back at the correct speed.

If you had an 002, then you could simply record the tapes at 88.2 -- change the sample rate in the header to 44.1kHz, and then import the files into a 44.1kHz session -- no sample rate convertion required.

Rail

[spicyitaliano]

Hot damn RAIL! Good thinking!!

I recently saw a Discovery/TLC special on a restoration project of all the first recordings ever made. From commentary to music. They were archiving everything for the future.

But the actual transfer of audio came from a reel to reel that was built specifically for the project brand new. So it had the best tape heads and speed quality, as well as output. So the best possible transfer was possible, instead of usingan old reel to reel, just using a brand new one designed for this project alone.

If you could get a hold of the best old/analog equipment, you'll be in business.

Good luck!

[supro]

Originally posted by archtop:
or B
bring to pt
out to analog at 15 ips
play at 7 1/2 ips
huh [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, that sounds like a better idea than using plugins or changing sample rate.

[PacMan]

Make sure you get the transfer right on your first try.

Last time i had to transfer some 16 track 2" tapes from the early seventies over to 24 track 2" tape and to protools, there was an awful lot of shed from the old tapes onto the headstacks. I had to constantly clean the heads with swabs/alcohol after every take practically.

Also, aligning the machine can be a b*tch, because plenty of tapes from back then have zero documentation with them. So you have to sort of guess at the alignment they used, and hope for the best.

It's safe to say that nobody used +9 back in those days. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

There's always the option of baking the tapes of course.

[nedorama]

Does it make sense to buy something on eBay that would let you play it at 3 3/4 ips and avoid the conversion/pitch shift? a quick search found this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=14980

If the machine's in good shape (or with a competent tech doing some maintenance) this could be the way.

I say this having recorded about 40 4-track tapes of our band playing at shows on a Yamaha MT2X 4-track (yes, I know, not the highest fidelity). After lending the 4-track to a friend for 3 years, it came back completely trashed, complete with birds nest droppings inside...

A quick search on eBay got me a MT4X, which was cheap, worked great, and allowed me to import my tapes into PT without significant problems.

While the other solutions are great, this may work if you're more of a low-tech guy like me.

[SKI]

Heed PACMAN's warning, tape that old is going to be a major headache no matter what machine you use.
You say asked to achieve so I don't know if it's a financial aspect here but it may not be worth the overall effort to embark on this path.
Don't get me wrong I love my Scully 280, but it definitely has a lot to do with the improvements in tape quality.
I may not hear a difference between the boxes that say Ampex and the ones that say Quantegy but the clean up behind them lets me know there is a difference.
If you are talking about the 60's you may even need to bake the reels, we are talking 40 years here.
If you do want to look for a deck maybe something by Tascam (maybe even Fostex) can get you something newer that's will be easier to maintain and pretty cheap.
Also check your area to see if rental is an option.
Hope you find a feasible solution especially since you are trying to save music from the past.

[[Benjamin]]

Some of you guys here are way off base regarding using a plug-in/process to slow the speed down. You're simply not thinking..

If the material is recorded at double speed - pitch AND speed is doubled. It's a simple question of transposing the pitch by -50% WITHOUT time expansion. It's easily done with Digidesigns own A/S Pitch plug-in, simply set the pitch to -50% and deselect the time expansion/compression box. This process is artefact free, although you effectively cut the sample rate in half.

Provided that the speed change you need to make is exactly -50% and you know how to edit a file resource, the method suggested by Rail is a very elegant solution, but if you find that you need to touch the speed up a bit you may find the method I described above a more flexible solution. The downside is obviously processing time - the upside is that you can audition the speed using preview.

Having said all that - PacMan makes some important points. Beyond that, the biasing and eq'ing on the deck is hardly gonna be right. If those tapes are sacred originals.. man, be careful..
Only you know the importance and budget of your project, maybe the quick'n'dirty dump to ProTools will be good enough, what do I know?

Ben

[fakshen]

Boy oh boy can we get in a lot of trouble here. There's some redundant info here, but I want to put it all down.

Ok, dubbing old 3 3/4" tape can be a nightmare. First of all, DO NOT USE A PRO MACHINE to playback the tapes. Most "pro" machines have WAAAAAYYY too much torque when you are fast forwarding the tape and shuttling it. It will snap faster than you can say ProTools. Most older tape is very, very, very thin. It can't handle the abuse.

BUY a machine that is consumer and has a reel size of no greater than 7". I am assuming you have a 3",5" or 7" reel. The consumer machines are really wimpy so it will be gentle. EQing and gain set-up is a best guess considering home stuff never gets calibrated or documented. Next problem with 1/4" tape, what is the track configuration? Is it two tracks or four tracks? If it's four, is it two running forward and two back? Or, a straight 4 track tape? If it's two forward and two back, is it two adjacent forward or are they track 1 and 3 forward with 2 and 4 backwards? Or... just one big fat monohead across the flux? Confused?

Tape shedding: The stuff that is notorious for shedding is the Ampex stuff from the late 70's/early 80's. It's generally the Ampex stuff with the rainbow label. Enough flux comes off to grind a 2" machine running at 30IPS to a dead stop. The biggest problem is that playback slows down gradually. By the time you hear a difference it is too late. You can't "piece" together a complete track because the pitch is constantly changing.

You can run the tape over and over to get the gumminess off of it but it's going to wear off so much flux your signal is going to be crap. You can "bake" the tape in a convection oven, but this should only be done by a PRO. Call Quantegy and ask them for recommendations.

If you play back the 3 3/4" at 7IPS and then try to slow it down digitally to the "right" speed you have two problems. 1. You may not be able to capture the high frequencies. You are doubling every frequency so your final product might end up sounding a bit DULL. 2. The extreme pitch change will definitely cause artifacts.

You are wishing to "clean-up" the audio; two concerns: by taking shortcuts you will be introducing more problems into the audio you are trying to improve in the first place. And, HOW do you know how bad the audio sounds unless you've listened to it first? Where did you listen to it??? Just borrow that machine if it plays back at the right speed, or run down with a DAT recorder if it can't be moved.

Ok, I've gone on WAY too long. I hope you are just up against someones grandma dictating a letter and not a one of a kind archive of a rare Beatles performance [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] If the first rather than the latter, just throw it on a 3 3/4" consumer deck and fo'gedaboutit.

Mike
www.mindtheatreaudio.com