PT 8 problems importing video

[garnoil]

I fully finished a film in PT 7.3 and everything was perfect. At the time I was using DV (720X480) resolution for the synchronization video. Unfortunately I moved up to PT 8, and I am trying to import the exact same film into the original session but at the 1080i resolution. Pro-Tools will not let me import the new film because it thinks it is a different frame rate. I double checked and opened both films (the original sync film and the new film) with Quick Time Pro and analyzed the information for both films regarding the frame rates. Quick Time Pro says that "both films" are at 23.98f/s. The session itself has a frame rate of 23.976 (Pro-Tools doesn't have an option for 23.98) and the session was actually derived from the original OMF and it all synchronized so it has to be correct. So why now, if both films have the exact same frame rate (according to QT Pro) will PT not let me inport this new video?

BTW, I tried other frame rates (23.976, 23.98, and 24) nothing works. I have taken "screen grabs" of the Session Set Up parameters as well as the QT information reports for each movie which clearly show that the frame rates are the same. Wo can I e-mail these screen grabs at Digidesign?

[EarHole]

My experience with 1080i is that it's usually 59.94. Which is actually a phantom rate of 29.97 duplicated. Have you tried removing the dv clip and seeing if it all lines up?

[Chief Technician]

Originally Posted by garnoil

I fully finished a film in PT 7.3 and everything was perfect. At the time I was using DV (720X480) resolution for the synchronization video. Unfortunately I moved up to PT 8, and I am trying to import the exact same film into the original session but at the 1080i resolution.

I double checked and opened both films (the original sync film and the new film) with Quick Time Pro and analyzed the information for both films regarding the frame rates. Quick Time Pro says that "both films" are at 23.98f/s.

Then the other film is not 1080i. 1080i at 23.98 is not one of the many HD formats. If its 1920x1080, and the frame rate is 23.98, it's 1080p.

The session itself has a frame rate of 23.976 (Pro-Tools doesn't have an option for 23.98)

23.976 and 23.98 are the same. It all has to do with mathematical accuracy and marketing hype.

So why now, if both films have the exact same frame rate (according to QT Pro) will PT not let me inport this new video?

Maybe QT is not telling the truth about the frame rate? It wouldn't be the first time that something in either the Get Info window or Properties window in QT was incorrect.

[garnoil]

Thank you for your reply:

Here is what FCP says about the properties of these two films:

Film one (old film that works) DV/DVCPRO NTSC 23,98f/sec (720X480)
New film (Pro-Tools won't import) DVC PROHD 1080i60 at 23.98f/sec
(1280X1080).

So FCP also sees the films at the same frame rate as in 23.98. Even if the 1080i60 is really a progressive scan (as in 1080p) the frame rate being identified by FCP is still 23.98. Should not Pro-Tools be able to import the film as long as the frame rate is the same?

[Postman]

Chief speaks truth, as usual. 1080i60 contains 60 frames of video. In the same way that NTSC is 60 video fields (30 frames) per second, yet can accurately show you 24 frames per second, the same is true of 1080i60. The original picture may be 24, but technically the video is 60. (Of course when I say "60" and "30" I mean "59.94" and "29.97", we still call it 1080i60.)

This is why Pro Tools needs to support higher frame rates.

BTW, 1080i means "interlaced". It is simply a hi-def upgrade to NTSC. 1080p is "progressive". There is twice as much video data in a progressive frame as in an interlaced frame. Broadcasts are only made in 720p or 1080i, none in 1080p because of the higher data rate required.

[garnoil]

Thanks again for the info. Here is an update.

I removed the original DV movie (and any audio from that movie) and imported the new 1080i60 film. I was able to import the film and it re-synchronizes perfectly. So far so good up until reel 3 of the film (about 1 hour into the film) where the video just stops playing. Pro-Tools says "you are running out of CPU remove RTAS or increse". At this point both the PT systems usage indicators and the Mac activitiy monitor show not even 25% CPU usage, PCI usage is about 30%. I am on a brand new Mac 8 core with 8 gigs of ram and on this machine throughout the film the CPU usage is very, very, light as indicated in both the Pro-Tools and Mac activity usage. The PCI usage (as reported in PT) never goes higher than about 40% and the CPU usage is between 10% and 25%.

I think this may be a problem with the video, I will open up the video in FCP and see it there is a problem at that spot, otherwise...I don't know.

[Postman]

The video stops while audio continues to play? Or do you mean all playback stops consistently at the same point, at which time you see that warning dialog?

[garnoil]

The video stops (audio continues) but I just discovered that this part of it is a video problem. I opened the video with QT Pro and it also stops at the same place Bad video (I have no idea why PT exaclty at that time displays the "running out of CPU dialogue". May be since the video has a problem at that exact point it hangs the CPU and prompts PT to display the RTAS CPU dialogue? Having said that, I still don't understand why PT would not import the file while the original reference video was in the session. If this new video fully synchronizes to the original audio then it is the exact same frame rate regardless of what the actual number is or what the software "lables it at". It is also apparent that this has nothing to do with the video resolution (DV as opposed to 1080i60). Which brings me back to my original post. Why if the video frame rate is exactly the same (as both films synchronize perfectly) is Pro-Tools not able to import them into the same session? Shouldn't PT be able to see that the frame rates are the same and why does it display the "wrong frame rate can't impot dialiogue"? or is this another "bug"

[Postman]

why PT would not import the file while the original reference video was in the session.

The new movie is 59.97fps, which is what 1080i60 means. The old one is 29.97. There is apparently metadata from FCP that tells QuickTime that the original movie runs at 24 (23.976), but the video data is actually formatted as 59.97fps. PT can only handle one frame rate at a time. Since you already had a 29.97 movie, PT refused to import any other frame rate. By deleting the original movie, it freed up PT to load in something different.

[garnoil]

Thank you