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  #1  
Old 08-27-2011, 10:21 PM
vudoo vudoo is offline
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Default louder TV mix war... suggestions

I followed all the delivery specs and the client was happy with the mix. After hearing it on air, they asked for a much louder mix, because as i expected, commercials between pauses were louder. My delivery max peak was -3 dbfs and i still can't compete with the commercials...how do you guys managed when stuck with -10dbfs specs.

I mixed with an L3 on the main buss with the max ceiling set to required specs, in this case, -3dbfs. I'm pulling the threshold down to get more volume but anything above 4-5 dbs of limiting sounds like utter crap to me....what to do when they still want more volume beyond this ???

Broadcast is slowly becoming like music mastering to me..MORE volume..louder, louder !
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  #2  
Old 08-27-2011, 11:59 PM
Henchman Henchman is offline
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Default Re: louder TV mix war... suggestions

You need to educate your client.
It's not your mix.
Its the broadcaster not bringing the commercials in spec.

I never, ever pull the threshold down.
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2011, 01:16 AM
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mgoorevich mgoorevich is offline
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Default Re: louder TV mix war... suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
You need to educate your client.
It's not your mix.
Its the broadcaster not bringing the commercials in spec.

I never, ever pull the threshold down.
+1
Explain them that you are up to specs. If they don't agree, suggest them to hire someone else who "can do it louder".
You can't win this war without making your mix sounding un-professional.
So even if you lose your next gig, you keep your reputation as a pro.
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  #4  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:00 AM
vudoo vudoo is offline
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Default Re: louder TV mix war... suggestions

If you set your limiter on the output bus to the specs's max peak, let say, - 3dbfs, so out ceiling and threshold equal -3 dbfs, how hard do you hit the limiter ?
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Old 08-28-2011, 12:55 PM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
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Default Re: louder TV mix war... suggestions

Luckily, with loudness metering being adopted slowly (as with commercial stations in the UK for ads) this should be a thing of the past, and the people wanting ads too loud will just have them rejected.

It SHOULD even the playing field out a lot.
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2011, 02:15 PM
Henchman Henchman is offline
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Default Re: louder TV mix war... suggestions

I have certainly noticed a difference on the major broadcast stations.
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2011, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: louder TV mix war... suggestions

Vudoo, If your delivery spec was -3, it seems to me that there would have also been a -24LKfs spec involved as well. Can't recall ever seeing a commercial deliverable that allowed a slammed -3 mix. Even in the days of slammed mixes, -8 was the most I'd ever been able to deliver.

If you're delivering a highly compressed -3 mix, the major networks will scale it down until it hits -24LKfs. Slammed mixes do not fare well with this type of scaling. Better to create the mix at the proper spec.

We've been shipping all our spots at -24LKfs for some months now, and I have to say, been quite pleased with the results. At least on major networks and their properties. There are still quite a few renegade cable networks (**cough** MTV) that aren't yet adhering to the CALM act, and probably won't until the Dec 2012 deadline, so in the meantime, there may be some issues with apparent loudness discrepancies until they're forced by law to comply, sometime near the end of 2012.

So nice to be mixing again.
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2011, 05:52 PM
Reckless Erik Reckless Erik is offline
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Default Re: louder TV mix war... suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by admix View Post
So nice to be mixing again.
+1 to this. I can't wait for it to happen here.
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2011, 06:19 PM
vudoo vudoo is offline
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Default Re: louder TV mix war... suggestions

Quote:
Vudoo, If your delivery spec was -3, it seems to me that there would have also been a -24LKfs spec involved as well. Can't recall ever seeing a commercial deliverable that allowed a slammed -3 mix. Even in the days of slammed mixes, -8 was the most I'd ever been able to deliver.

We've been shipping all our spots at -24LKfs for some months now, and I have to say, been quite pleased with the results. At least on major networks and their properties. There are still quite a few renegade cable networks (**cough** MTV) that aren't yet adhering to the CALM act, and probably won't until the Dec 2012 deadline, so in the meantime, there may be some issues with apparent loudness discrepancies until they're forced by law to comply, sometime near the end of 2012.
The only specs they gave me was no peak above -3 DBfs....that's it! It's a canadian broadcast similar to MTV. I've been mixing mostly for theater and bluray releases and i'm shocked at how loud and how the specs are different between various networks.

Just had a look at a template from a friend of mine who does a lot of work for different canadian and US networks and he usually prints his stems with an L3 set to ceiling -5 and threshold -12....damn that is loud and barely any dynamics left!
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  #10  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:12 PM
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waltz mastering waltz mastering is offline
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Default Re: louder TV mix war... suggestions

If you feel you've exhausted all the possibilities yourself and have a budget for mastering.. you could always send it out.
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