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  #11  
Old 11-15-2011, 09:20 PM
Gordon Hookailo's Avatar
Gordon Hookailo Gordon Hookailo is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerF View Post
In a word, yes. Was my answer that unclear? What I said is that, yes, TDM plugins will run. They are just refered to as DSP plugins in the new nomenclature and the same old RTAS plugins are now refered to as Native, in the new nomenclature.

BTW, whether you know it or not, you are making up new words to describe existing Pro Tools systems when you are asking your questions. That results in a difficulty to understand and consequently answer your questions.
Alright Werner, what words am I making up. I've been involved with PTs development since 1990. I really don't mean to create an argument, but it's seems to me that most people who have HD systems would know the terms I'm using. If not, please fill me in. Please do enlighten me as to the terms you didn't understand.

Thanks.
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  #12  
Old 11-15-2011, 09:46 PM
Sturphy Sturphy is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

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Originally Posted by Gordon Hookailo View Post
Alright Werner, what words am I making up. I've been involved with PTs development since 1990. I really don't mean to create an argument, but it's seems to me that most people who have HD systems would know the terms I'm using. If not, please fill me in. Please do enlighten me as to the terms you didn't understand.

Thanks.

Last edited by Sturphy; 11-15-2011 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Bah... not worth it.
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2011, 09:57 PM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

For sure. And you could ask them about HDx13 and HD XL3 systems as well. At that point maybe some civility could have a chance to prevail.
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2011, 10:09 PM
DJ Hellfire DJ Hellfire is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

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Originally Posted by Gordon Hookailo View Post
Protools HD XL 3 means 3 PCIe cards tied together with TDM ribbon cables on top of them that pass the audio on?
Do you mean HD ACCEL 3?
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2011, 11:02 PM
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Gordon Hookailo Gordon Hookailo is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

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Originally Posted by DJ Hellfire View Post
Do you mean HD ACCEL 3?
Indeed I did. Apologies for using XL instead. And Apologies to anyone especially Werner, who took offense at a hastily written post to start out with. There has been a lot of animosity going on here because of Avid's poor communication and pricing. I didn't mean to let that slip into this thread.

I believe I understand what Avid is trying to do here, and will be writing an article about that soon. It took me a long time to figure out the business sense, but like many of you, am working on creating realistic upgrade paths for the users I support, and my own studio.
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2011, 11:24 PM
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Gordon Hookailo Gordon Hookailo is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

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Originally Posted by WernerF View Post
Yes, your question was that unclear. The best answer that I can give is that, yes, you can use RTAS, AAX and TDM plugins with 10 HD running on HD TDM cards and interfaces. The RTAS plugins are now just reffered to as Native and the TDM plugs are reffered to as DSP.
Please understand the following is from much study and talking with many users and studios here in LA, around the country and Avid... I'm not trying to make anyone wrong here, just trying to create some common language so we can all communicate. I believe this is critical to anyone transitioning to PT10 on TDM hardware (Yes ACCEL). Again, I'm sorry if my use of XL and my frustration of it not being understood caused bad vibes. Please let that go and get on with helping each other.

In ProTools 10HD only, my understanding is that their TDM is still called TDM. RTAS is still called RTAS.

AAX is assumed to be native unless it is called AAX DSP. Again, MY understanding of this (if this helps any of this confusion) is that once things move to AAX only, THEN it will be as you describe above. Though I have heard a rumors that audio suite will still be around but I don't know if that will be phased out in PT11.

Please don't let a bad start to this thread get in the way of sharing information that we all need to make important, and expensive decisions.

Peace
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2011, 11:53 PM
James Drake James Drake is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Hookailo View Post
Please understand the following is from much study and talking with many users and studios here in LA, around the country and Avid... I'm not trying to make anyone wrong here, just trying to create some common language so we can all communicate. I believe this is critical to anyone transitioning to PT10 on TDM hardware (Yes ACCEL). Again, I'm sorry if my use of XL and my frustration of it not being understood caused bad vibes. Please let that go and get on with helping each other.

In ProTools 10HD only, my understanding is that their TDM is still called TDM. RTAS is still called RTAS.

AAX is assumed to be native unless it is called AAX DSP. Again, MY understanding of this (if this helps any of this confusion) is that once things move to AAX only, THEN it will be as you describe above. Though I have heard a rumors that audio suite will still be around but I don't know if that will be phased out in PT11.

Please don't let a bad start to this thread get in the way of sharing information that we all need to make important, and expensive decisions.

Peace
I am looking at a PT10 HD2 rig now. The insert menu just says DSP or Native (where it used to say RTAS/TDM).

There is no distinction between RTAS and AAX Native.

Obviously there is no AAX DSP, so all the DSP plugins must be TDM, but it doesn't say that anywhere.

AVID ARE PLAYING MIND GAMES WITH THE USERS.

And yeah, what the hell is PT XL?
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2011, 12:05 AM
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Gordon Hookailo Gordon Hookailo is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Drake View Post
I am looking at a PT10 HD2 rig now. The insert menu just says DSP or Native (where it used to say RTAS/TDM).

There is no distinction between RTAS and AAX Native.

Obviously there is no AAX DSP, so all the DSP plugins must be TDM, but it doesn't say that anywhere.

AVID ARE PLAYING MIND GAMES WITH THE USERS.

And yeah, what the hell is PT XL?
Thank you James! Don't have a PTHD10 rig here yet so I have not seen how things are labeled. I was just repeating what they have been telling me about PT10HD. Even though things are labeled this way though doesn't mean the distinction and difference isn't there (as I believe you are saying).

In fact, this is the kind of thing that will make it difficult to assess efficiency of AAX native over RTAS native unless they are using an RTAS shell for AAX.

I just learned that HDN runs much better than HD TDM from another user as to track count and plug in count. So they are assuming that having to bus stuff back through into the TDM mixer is the bottle neck but only the programmers know for sure. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
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  #19  
Old 11-16-2011, 12:20 AM
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panamajack panamajack is offline
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Default Re: $1500 Question

When did Avid change the name of pcie cards to XL?

Oh, Accel...

But Accel can also mean pcix HD3, right?

Never mind. I get it. Yeah. All three should work.
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  #20  
Old 11-16-2011, 12:39 AM
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Gordon Hookailo Gordon Hookailo is offline
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Smile Re: $1500 Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by panamajack View Post
When did Avid change the name of pcie cards to XL?
They didn't. It's my own terminology that confused folks. Here is the breakdown...

The first HD cards were PCI cards or PCIx cards. They had less power than the so called ACCEL cards that came out later.

An original HD1 core card had the same power as what they called a process card. HD2 had a core and a process card. HD3 had a core and 2 process cards.

Then they came out with the ACCEL cards (which I call XL cards for short). So the PCI version was then HD1 = 1 process card. HD2 = one core card (process card) and an ACCEL card. HD3 was core (process card) and 2 ACCEL cards.

Then when they made the move to PCIe, the core card became an ACCEL card so a PCIe HD3 system had more horse power than a PCI HD3 system.

That is the reason I make the distinction between HD, and HDXL. I design systems for studios and consult, so I have to make these distinctions so that everyone get's the power they need on up through HD6 ect.

So no, Avid never changed the name of a PCIe card to XL. But they did change a process card to an ACCEL card, and you can only get an ACCEL core card as a PCIe card.
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