Reason Rack AAX -

[Sardi]

OK. So it appears it was user error.

In my Reason Rack, I had the Scales and Chords player effect triggering an instance of the Europa synth. I (wrongly) assumed if I created an additional instrument track with an AAX VI inserted and assigned it's MIDI input to be from the Reason Rack MIDI output, that it would still pass the player MIDI info to the VI. It appears that is not the case.

So, this time I tried it with just a player inserted in the Reason Rack and did the same assignment to an AAX VI and indeed it passes the MIDI information to the track correctly.

As you can see in the following clips, the single notes I'm playing are being turned into chords with the player and the actual notes in the chords are being captured onto the secondary instrument track that is hosting the VI. Same goes with the arpeggiation example. I'm playing a chord and the arpeggiated notes are being captured onto the instrument track. So yeah, it does work like Cthulhu does.

Scales & Chords
https://i.ibb.co/JKTp19K/Scales-And-Chords.gif

Dual Arepggio
https://i.ibb.co/19ZTJct/Dual-Arpeggio.gif

Donald, I'm not sure what your issue was, but maybe you were doing something similar to what I was doing.

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by Sardi

OK. So it appears it was user error.

In my Reason Rack, I had the Scales and Chords player effect triggering an instance of the Europa synth. I (wrongly) assumed if I created an additional instrument track with an AAX VI inserted and assigned it's MIDI input to be from the Reason Rack MIDI output, that it would still pass the player MIDI info to the VI. It appears that is not the case.

So, this time I tried it with just a player inserted in the Reason Rack and did the same assignment to an AAX VI and indeed it passes the MIDI information to the track correctly.

As you can see in the following clips, the single notes I'm playing are being turned into chords with the player and the actual notes in the chords are being captured onto the secondary instrument track that is hosting the VI. Same goes with the arpeggiation example. I'm playing a chord and the arpeggiated notes are being captured onto the instrument track. So yeah, it does work like Cthulhu does.

Donald, I'm not sure what your issue was, but maybe you were doing something similar to what I was doing.

I'll tell you why...because I'm an idiot! With the Chords and Scales player you MUST record arm the target instrument track as well as the Reason Rack track. Duh!! When I remembered that little detail it all works just fine. If you have a MIDI track already set up on the Reason track, then you need only record arm the target VI track.



I also was able to do the Beat Map player. I directed it to Boom for starters and it worked just fine.



That leaves Note Echo. To get that to work you need to put the MIDI track you want played on the Reason track with the output directed to the target track, as before. Then, put the Note Echo AFTER whatever other player you want to use, or just the note echo and it will apply the effect on whatever is playing on the MIDI track to the target VI.



So, I guess it all works now. You just have to remember to record arm the target track first. Also record arm the Reason track IF you're playing notes live off a MIDI controller. If you're having it play an already created MIDI track, then you don't need to record arm it.

[Sardi]

It's a good thing I didn't do what I normally do with software and buy it without demoing it because this Reason Rack is buggy and has a MAJOR flaw.

I've encountered similar things to Donald with the plugin just opening a blank screen. Mine's black instead of white. Must be a Mac/PC thing. HAHA!

I've narrowed it down to it happening only when instantiating a new instance of the plugin and only when I have my Artist Mix turned on. It does not happen when the Artist Mix is off and it doesn't happen when simply opening an already instantiated instance of the plugin. But, if I turn my Artist Mix on, it happens EVERY time. Just loads to a blank black window. Reboot Pro Tools, same thing. Turn Artist Mix off, and Reason Rack loads as it should.

Which then leads to my next issue and this is a BIG one. There is no MIDI learn functionality on the plugin. Like W T actual F? Right click a parameter - no MIDI learn. How on Earth are you supposed to automate any parameter with a hardware controller? Eucon? Ok... on to the next point.

Fire up the Artist Mix and yes, some of the parameters appear controllable, but if I load a complex patch with a few instruments and/or effects, I might be paging through 20 times to find the parameter I want to automate. Oh... not all the parameters are labelled on my Artist Mix. Some are. A LOT are not. They are mapped to something as you can see it move but you have no idea what you are controlling. The fact that we still can't re-map controls in Eucon means it's pretty useless. Plus, the fact that it seems to not load/crash the plugin with my Artist Mix turned on makes it doubly useless.

I'm gobsmacked at the fact that you can't right click and assign a parameter to a physical control on a MIDI controller. Literally gobsmacked. I can call up any soft synth and a fair amount of plugins and have them controllable by my MIDI controller. Not the Reason Rack.

I'd love for this to be something I have overlooked, but I really don't think that's the case. I'd buy it in a second if I could map it correctly.

[DonaldM]

Sardi, Yes, I noticed that too. The workaround, I suppose, is to use the automation lanes. The Reason 11 MIDI Implementation Chart can at least tell you what assigns to what. Not as efficient as a right click MIDI learn, I know, but can at least help.



Just to update my initial comments, since the original issue of the blank screen, everything has worked just fine. Not sure what caused the original issue. But, ever since the reboot, it all works fine. I reported the Ignition Key issue to Reason, and heard back. They fixed that in my account, and I was able to activate the IK on my account, so no longer need to be online to authorize when I boot up Reason, either standalone or Rack.



There is another major limitation with MIDI besides lack of MIDI learn. The rack is NOT multi-timbral at the moment. It can only receive on ONE MIDI channel. Which means, you need a separate rack installed on another instrument channel for each different Reason VI you wish to use. Of course, within one rack you can layer up all you want, but all the VI's in one rack will respond to the same incoming MIDI channel. With Rewire, as you know, you could have one instance of Reason and direct separate MIDI channels to whatever instrument you wanted in the rack. Not so in rack version. I'm guessing that will be addressed in a future update.



Overall, though, for me, since the initial issues I mentioned, everything has worked the way it should. Last night I had 8 instances of the Rack on 8 instrument tracks with various layers of VI's in each, and it all worked fine, and ran about 50% or so CPU load, so not bad.



I still find the lack of MIDI outputs on the players to be a drawback. I've suggested to Reason more than once that they put MIDI IN/OUT ports on the back of all the players, sequencers and other VI's and allow MIDI routing with virtual cables just like you can now with the virtual audio cables.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

Sardi, Yes, I noticed that too. The workaround, I suppose, is to use the automation lanes. The Reason 11 MIDI Implementation Chart can at least tell you what assigns to what. Not as efficient as a right click MIDI learn, I know, but can at least help.

Except that doesn't work.



I plugged in my Novation Launch Control, opened the editor and remapped knobs 1-4 to be assigned to MIDI CC 71-74, which according to the Reason 11 MIDI Controller Chart, those CC numbers should be the 4 rotary dials on the Combinator.



Load up Reason standalone, instantiate a Combinator, turn the knobs on my controller, the Combinator mimics the movements. Load up Reason Rack plugin in Pro Tools, instantiate a Combinator, turn the knobs and nothing happens. Open up a controller lane on the track, go to MIDI CC 71, draw some info, Combinator doesn't react.



The only 2 controls that work are Pitch Bend and Mod Wheel. They work with my hardware controller and if you draw automation in. Nothing else works. This isn't even a workaround though as if you use my Combinator example, whatever instrument you have loaded in that Combinator will also react to the Pitch Bend and Mod Wheel automation so it's utterly useless.

Just to update my initial comments, since the original issue of the blank screen, everything has worked just fine. Not sure what caused the original issue.

Unfortunately I can replicate my black screen every time if I have my Artist Mix turned on. So the only thing that can give me some form of parameter automation also causes it to be buggy.



I should fire off an email to them. Seeing as they were relatively responsive to your feedback, they might give me some sort of indication as to when this will be implemented. Why it wasn't to start with is beyond me. It's not very creative if you want to just twiddle a few knobs to get a feel of what you want to do with a sound. The whole thing I loved about Reason was that it was fun to work with and quite fast.



BTW, I tried it in Ableton Live and using Live's MIDI learn functionality, everything works as it should.

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by Sardi

Except that doesn't work.



I plugged in my Novation Launch Control, opened the editor and remapped knobs 1-4 to be assigned to MIDI CC 71-74, which according to the Reason 11 MIDI Controller Chart, those CC numbers should be the 4 rotary dials on the Combinator.



Load up Reason standalone, instantiate a Combinator, turn the knobs on my controller, the Combinator mimics the movements. Load up Reason Rack plugin in Pro Tools, instantiate a Combinator, turn the knobs and nothing happens. Open up a controller lane on the track, go to MIDI CC 71, draw some info, Combinator doesn't react.

Hmmm, that's interesting. Were the Combinator knobs assigned to anything inside the Combinator, or was just a an empty Combinator? I suspect that even if the knobs don't move, if they're assigned to control parameters inside the Combinator, they values will change if you set up something in an automation lane assigned to that knob.



Yesterday, I had no problem using automation lanes to change parameters on a couple rack devices. For example, I was playing with Alligator and assigned one automation lane to turn the Alligator off or on and another lane assigned to change the pattern number. It worked fine.

Originally Posted by Sardi

Unfortunately I can replicate my black screen every time if I have my Artist Mix turned on. So the only thing that can give me some form of parameter automation also causes it to be buggy.

I should fire off an email to them. Seeing as they were relatively responsive to your feedback, they might give me some sort of indication as to when this will be implemented. Why it wasn't to start with is beyond me. It's not very creative if you want to just twiddle a few knobs to get a feel of what you want to do with a sound. The whole thing I loved about Reason was that it was fun to work with and quite fast.

I would definitely file a bug report with them about this issue. It may take a couple of days for them to respond, but from my experience, they do always respond.

Originally Posted by Sardi

BTW, I tried it in Ableton Live and using Live's MIDI learn functionality, everything works as it should.

Which means its likely something in the AAX implementation. I might give it a try in Reaper to see how it works there.

[DonaldM]

I just ran a little test of the automation lanes in light of Sardi's earlier comments. If you right click on any parameter (or nearly any) on any device in the reason
rack you can select to add that parameter to an automation lane for the track. So, that's what I did. I called up a Combinator patch where all four of the Combi control knobs were assigned to various parameters within the Combi. I added an automation lane for control knob 1, then drew in some changes on that auto lane. On playback I can hear the changes being made over time per the line I drew on the auto lane. However, the knob itself on the front of the Combinator doesn't move, as it would if MIDI CC Learn were active.



So, the good news is, you can apply auto lanes to virtually anything in the rack and it will work. The bad news is there is no MIDI CC learn so you can do the same thing with an external MIDI controller. Also, there's the annoying limitation with the auto lane that you can't see the change being made on whatever knob, dial, or slider to which the auto lane is directed. That can be a bit of nuisance if you close all auto lanes and then sometime later go back to that session. You'll hear the change, but if you don't remember where its coming from, you won't just see it, you'll have to open the auto lanes a gain to see what you did.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

Hmmm, that's interesting. Were the Combinator knobs assigned to anything inside the Combinator, or was just a an empty Combinator? I suspect that even if the knobs don't move, if they're assigned to control parameters inside the Combinator, they values will change if you set up something in an automation lane assigned to that knob.

No. That's not the case. It makes no difference. They are not responding to MIDI CC at all, except for Pitch Bend and Mod Wheel. Instrument or no instrument, it does not respond. The visual aspect has nothing to do with it.

Yesterday, I had no problem using automation lanes to change parameters on a couple rack devices. For example, I was playing with Alligator and assigned one automation lane to turn the Alligator off or on and another lane assigned to change the pattern number. It worked fine.

Yes, but that's not MIDI controller automation. That's parameter automation like automating an EQ or compressor plugin, hence why I can control it with my Artist Mix.

Which means its likely something in the AAX implementation. I might give it a try in Reaper to see how it works there.

Well I think this is the crux of the problem. They've implemented the automation as if it's a regular plugin, whereas every other manufacturer of software synths doesn't do that and has a MIDI learn function or a predefined MIDI CC assigned to a parameter.

Maybe they're between a rock and a hard place as the Reason Rack can also just be used as a processing tool - EQ, compressor, phaser etc. But, the instruments need to have MIDI CC parameter automation and be the same as every other VI in existence.

Perhaps there's a way to have both and you can choose which one you want to use. You don't want it to respond to both simultaneously as that will cause other issues. Case in point. Take the Combinator for example. It actually does that exact thing. You can write MIDI CC automation in the Mod Wheel lane on an instrument track and then also right click the Mod Wheel on the Reason Rack device and add an automation lane for that. So what happens now that you have two ways to control it? Well, one takes precedence. In this case, it's the MIDI CC data. You can try this yourself.

I called up a Combinator patch where all four of the Combi control knobs were assigned to various parameters within the Combi. I added an automation lane for control knob 1, then drew in some changes on that auto lane. On playback I can hear the changes being made over time per the line I drew on the auto lane. However, the knob itself on the front of the Combinator doesn't move, as it would if MIDI CC Learn were active.

That's not the case on my end. The Combinator knobs most definitely move just like any other plugin parameter does when automated on any plugin.

You might want to double check that. I can upload a video of it working on my end like any other plugin does if you want. Unsure why it's not doing that on your end.

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by Sardi

You might want to double check that. I can upload a video of it working on my end like any other plugin does if you want. Unsure why it's not doing that on your end.

Well I tried it on others as well. The automation does change the value and the results are audible. But the knobs or sliders don't move. I'm on Windows and you're on a Mac, right? I wonder if that makes a difference here? Clearly there's kinks to be ironed out.



As to the difference between the Rack as plugin vs the Rack as VI, yes, there should be a way to differentiate. Although with the Rack isn't always so clear cut. In a Combinator you can have several VI's PLUS several plugins all in one big patch, as you know.



I seem to recall that with Blue Cat Audio's Patchwork you can instantiate it as a plugin or an instrument, as I recall. It makes a difference which you use.