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  #21  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:51 PM
drumster drumster is offline
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Default Re: HD Native trade up slightly different than TDM trade up

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Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
So did the bottom just fall out of the Native market? Will we be seeing a heap of Native packs on eBay for bargain prices? I may be misreading but Avid's trade-up pricing makes it look like a Native system is worth about $1K now....
I don't see this happening. In fact, I forsee the HD Native system becoming more popular than ever now that TDM systems are being discontinued. For those that need all the extra DSP, the new HDX PCIe system is a great fit but for others who don't require that kind of extra processing power, HD Native is a great solution.

We're also on the verge of the next generation of Mac Pros, so computers are only getting faster and more capable of handling large mixes with very low HW buffers. There are already guys on this forum and over on Gearslutz running 6, 8 and 12 Core Westmere machines with a buffer of anywhere between 32 and 64 samples tracking full bands without any latency issues.

HD Native is one of the best places to be right now because a software upgrade to Version 10 actually means that you get to experience everything it has to offer. The same cannot be said for TDM, where a few of the best new features are not available due to the outdated architecture of the TDM architecture.
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  #22  
Old 10-23-2011, 05:34 PM
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mrpollack mrpollack is offline
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Default Re: HD Native trade up slightly different than TDM trade up

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Originally Posted by drumster View Post
I don't see this happening. In fact, I forsee the HD Native system becoming more popular than ever now that TDM systems are being discontinued. For those that need all the extra DSP, the new HDX PCIe system is a great fit but for others who don't require that kind of extra processing power, HD Native is a great solution.

We're also on the verge of the next generation of Mac Pros, so computers are only getting faster and more capable of handling large mixes with very low HW buffers. There are already guys on this forum and over on Gearslutz running 6, 8 and 12 Core Westmere machines with a buffer of anywhere between 32 and 64 samples tracking full bands without any latency issues.

HD Native is one of the best places to be right now because a software upgrade to Version 10 actually means that you get to experience everything it has to offer. The same cannot be said for TDM, where a few of the best new features are not available due to the outdated architecture of the TDM architecture.
I agree ...I have really nice experience with tracking like 30+ tracks true plugins with 32 sample buffer size while playing back lots of tracks and VIs on my new i7 2600K machine (easy and stable overclocked if needed to 5 ghz)..I even don't look at HDX option now
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  #23  
Old 10-23-2011, 05:35 PM
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mrpollack mrpollack is offline
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Default Re: HD Native trade up slightly different than TDM trade up

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Originally Posted by drumster View Post
I don't see this happening. In fact, I forsee the HD Native system becoming more popular than ever now that TDM systems are being discontinued. For those that need all the extra DSP, the new HDX PCIe system is a great fit but for others who don't require that kind of extra processing power, HD Native is a great solution.

We're also on the verge of the next generation of Mac Pros, so computers are only getting faster and more capable of handling large mixes with very low HW buffers. There are already guys on this forum and over on Gearslutz running 6, 8 and 12 Core Westmere machines with a buffer of anywhere between 32 and 64 samples tracking full bands without any latency issues.

HD Native is one of the best places to be right now because a software upgrade to Version 10 actually means that you get to experience everything it has to offer. The same cannot be said for TDM, where a few of the best new features are not available due to the outdated architecture of the TDM architecture.
I agree ...I have really nice experience with tracking like 30+ tracks true plugins with 32 sample buffer size while playing back lots of tracks and VIs on my new i7 2600K machine (easy and stable overclocked if needed to 5 ghz)..I even don't look at HDX option now ..But for me upgrade from PT|HD9 to PT|10 HD for $999 sucks
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  #24  
Old 10-23-2011, 05:52 PM
Greg M Greg M is offline
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Default Re: HD Native trade up slightly different than TDM trade up

Hercules,

If you are doing music (tracking, mixing, mastering) the best deal going is HD|Native. I just can't see ever needing a $7,000 HDX card for music (unless the next big surprize is that AAX plug-ins need 10X the processing power that RTAS requires - Oh what a miserable thought). My next upgrade will be a computer 3 or 4 years from now, and since I build my own, it will cost about $,1000.

The way I see it, the real need for HDX is the feature film business.

Hope this helps,
Greg
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  #25  
Old 10-23-2011, 05:54 PM
Hercules Hercules is offline
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Default Re: HD Native trade up slightly different than TDM trade up

Aren't the Native h/w cards/boxes now obsolete?

I know that their functionality doesn't change but their market value should pretty much equal the trade-up price (plus a bit) now i.e. Avid would offer a reasonable trade-up figure to get the older hardware off the market and force customers to go with the latest gear, but current Native owners would be looking to make a few more $s than the trade-in offers.....
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  #26  
Old 10-23-2011, 06:09 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: HD Native trade up slightly different than TDM trade up

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Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
Aren't the Native h/w cards/boxes now obsolete?

I know that their functionality doesn't change but their market value should pretty much equal the trade-up price (plus a bit) now i.e. Avid would offer a reasonable trade-up figure to get the older hardware off the market and force customers to go with the latest gear, but current Native owners would be looking to make a few more $s than the trade-in offers.....
Why would Native cards be obsolete?
With a fast computer you'll get most of the benefits that you would with HDX cards. The only real difference is in the number of tracks. You only get 64 in and 64 out on a Native card, which is the same as on an HDX card as I understand it (2 mini connectors on the back, piggybacking 2 a/d/a boxes on each). Of course you could run multiple HDX cards (max of 3 right now). But really, for most here - would you need more I/O than the Native card offers?
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  #27  
Old 10-23-2011, 06:09 PM
drumster drumster is offline
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Default Re: HD Native trade up slightly different than TDM trade up

There seems to be alot of misinformation out there regarding the HD Native system now that HDX has been introduced. HD Native is very much a current product and is not being discontinued any time soon. HDX is only replacing the old TDM systems to pave the way for the 64 bit release of ProTools. The FPGA technology that is present on the HDX cards has been based off of HD Native, so I think you'll see it being relevant for quite awhile.

The trade in deal from HD Native to HDX is simply there to give HD Native users the option to move into the DSP system if they need it. However, I'm sure most users don't need it and will be more than fine with the Native system and a fast computer. Like someone has already mentioned, the new hardware seems to be aimed at the post crowd.
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  #28  
Old 10-23-2011, 07:13 PM
Hercules Hercules is offline
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Default Re: HD Native trade up slightly different than TDM trade up

Ok - I assumed that Native was obsolete because I couldn't find them listed for sale anywhere you don't normally get a trade-up path for a current product. I guess that eventually all roads will lead to the descendent of the lastest offering. Perhaps??? they will all merge again in 12 months when PT11 comes out

Either way, one (or 2?) of the blue face boxes with 32 TDIF out and matching core card(s) would suit me fine atm.
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  #29  
Old 10-23-2011, 07:41 PM
Hercules Hercules is offline
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Default Re: HD Native trade up slightly different than TDM trade up

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Originally Posted by Greg M View Post
Hercules,

If you are doing music (tracking, mixing, mastering) the best deal going is HD|Native. I just can't see ever needing a $7,000 HDX card for music (unless the next big surprize is that AAX plug-ins need 10X the processing power that RTAS requires - Oh what a miserable thought). My next upgrade will be a computer 3 or 4 years from now, and since I build my own, it will cost about $,1000.

The way I see it, the real need for HDX is the feature film business.

Hope this helps,
Greg
G'day Greg,

Thanks, and on the surface I think you are right, but studio connectivity makes the real picture a little different - my desk has 32 channels of firewire I/O + 24 channels of TDIF I/O (+ ADAT + SPDIF + analog....) and I'd like to leverage it all - the firewire goes to my MBP / the analog + ADAT + SPDIF goes to my outboard h/w.

The TDIF has to go my W7 PC - currently I'm using an SSL 16 I/O card (max 48KHz) and it looks like a blueface 192 box / core card is the only upgrade option that talks TDIF nowadays.....

I don't use any plugs or PT automation - outboard handles all of that.
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  #30  
Old 10-23-2011, 08:57 PM
nst7 nst7 is offline
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Default Re: HD Native trade up slightly different than TDM trade up

The fact that they offer a tradeup for HD Native is not a reflection of discontinuation. HDX is a much more expensive product and they're just trying to give everyone the option. In the past, they would offer tradeups from the 002/003, and Mbox 2 products, even when those products were current and still being made.

Secondly, the value of these products to sell on ebay, etc. has nothing to do with what Avid offers as a trade up. It never has. A lot of times, the tradeup offers were kind of cheap, and people did much better to just sell them outright, which they did.
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