ProjectMix line inputs -10?

[colt45]

..........or pick up a few of these:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GXJ235/

NOT!!!
A TRS-XLR adapter is going to do NOTHING to resolve the mismatched sensitivity between a +4dbu line output and the Project Mix's -10dbV line inputs. Adapting a +4dbu line level TRS signal to XLR will only make the problem worse, as now you're trying to put the +4dbu line level signal into a mic preamp, which willm result in the mic pre distorting wildly.

[SHREDDER]

Well.............i've got 8 of the "TRS-XLR" adaptors and tracked with 4 of them this weekend with superb results.Did it as a test but I am going to keep the tracks for the permanent mix.Maybe your unit was a real defective one.

TEST:

Mackie Onyx into the Project mix via TRS cable with XLR adaptor to the Project mix's XLR input's.Channel gain on Project mix was full counter clockwise("0"),channel gain on Mackie was at 12:00".Worked like a charm.I normally go straight TRS into TRS(line input)but I just wanted to prove that the other works just as well.I would'nt be worried about buying the Project mix at all.It's made my tracking/mixing 10 x faster and the mic pre's are great also............yet I still love the Mackie's pre's a tad more.The Project mix kicks ass period!

[gsoul]

I tried the same test as shredder, and my projectmix worked like a charm also. I definately reccomend the projectmix.

[colt45]

channel gain on Mackie was at 12:00"

Again, this means nothing. You need to set your nominal PFL level to 0dbu. If you do, you'll see the inputs of the ProjectMix light up like the 4th of July, especially if you're plugging a +4dbu line output into the mic pres. Any first year audio student knows this is a major no no.

There was nothing defective on the units we had. M-Audio has confirmed to me twice this is a DESIGN FLAW that is being changed to accomodate +4dbu line level signals. Is there somempart of that you don't understand? Call M-Audio and ask them if you don't believe it and get confirmation yourself.

[gsoul]

m-audio has been contacted several (7 or more) times and mangers have been spoken to, not just tier 1 level agents that you spoke to. I was told there is NO DESIGN FLAW. Like you said, first year audio students will know what you are saying, so once again its not that complicated. Ok, so now you have tried your test on multiple units? Come on!! You must work for Tascam or another competitor of M-Audio. So people if you want a way to enhance the mix of your tracks with good preamps get the projectmix.


Guys,contact M-Audio and speak to a Manager and they will tell you that they are trying to find the first level agent(s) who "told" colt45 and others this untruth.

[colt45]

Again, this is a design flaw in the ProjectMix line inputs sensitivity only. You can use the line inputs with -10dbV line sources without issue, however you cannot route +4dbu line level outputs run at nominal level into the PM's line inputs, as the source will overload the input of the PM. M-Audio is working to permanently correct this hardware issue shortly.

I have absolutely no affiliation with any manufacturers. I, also was interested in the PM, but upon discovering what I consider a major design flaw, and then confirming with the manufacturer through upper level tech support it indeed is a flaw that is being corrected, I passed on the current unit until this is corrected. I've also spoken to R&D people within M-Audio about this as well, who also confirmed this as fact.

Your test of ".Channel gain on Project mix was full counter clockwise("0"),channel gain on Mackie was at 12:00" is absolutely meaningless. You need to send a +4dbu signal into the PM line inputs at nominal 0db. Only then will you get the results that will confirm what has already been admitted freely from M-Audio, that the line input sensitivity is indeed -10dbV not +4dbu, which is over an 11db difference in the line inputs signal handling capabilities. In order to prevent the inputs of the PM from overloading when routing a +4dbu source into them, you would have to reduce the output level by over 11db, which will significantly change the quality of the sound of any preamp.

Those considering a PM fear not. M-Audio has stated they are working on a hardware solution for this, which should be incorporated in all PM's once complete. If the ability to route +4dbu sensitivy outputs (from outboard mic pres for instance) is a feature you require in the PM, wait until this design flaw is corrected to purchase.

[chipxsd]

How long until M-Audio will correct this? When I'll seriously consider buying one, how will I know it's the fixed one?

[colt45]

My guess is M-Audio won't be making any public announcements, and you'll have to check in with them from time to time to find out. I'd guess probably around May you'll see the modified ones hit the streets. Best bet is to simply check the unit before purchasing by dropping a +4dbu signal at nominal 0dbu into the line inputs and see what the result is. A simple tone generator like a Q-Box will suffice.

[gsoul]

A +4 dbu signal from my analog mixer to my projectmix was apart of my testing and still no clipping. If there really was a design flaw with the units, there is definately a serial number point you would want to start from when you are buying the product. I am just glad I am not experiencing the same thing that colt45 has reported because I use a +4dbu signal all of the time when recording live. I do believe it is possible that m-audio would lie and try to cover it up and just fix the problem secretly as colt45 indicated. Im sure they would not want this to get out. Call M-Audio to verify what colt45 is saying or anyone in a forum for that matter. You may get someone honest.

[colt45]

A +4 dbu signal from my analog mixer to my projectmix was apart of my testing and still no clipping

Again, this is meaningless. At what level? At -15db this would not clip, however at a nominal 0db it will. However running your mic pre so it only outputs -15db is going to sound completely different than running it at 0db. Given the continous repetition of meaningless info in your posts, I suspect you do not have an understanding of input sensitivity and the difference between -10dbV and +4dbu. I'd recommend you research both and educate yourself before posting again, this might enlighten you as to why you are not able to replicate this.

M-Audio is not lying about anything. They do not spec the input sensitivity of the line inputs in any of their data. They openly admit to anyone if you inquire that they are indeed -10dbV, and they cannot handle a nominal 0db level from a +4dbu source. They openly admit this is a design flaw/oversight they are going to correct.