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  #111  
Old 02-17-2005, 07:00 PM
Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Default Re: UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post

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Chief,
I am just giving a little background about Funkcity.
That's cool, I have no qualms with that. His experience goes back to when I was smart enough to program the VCR, but too dumb to realize that I was recording over my first steps.
Quote:
As for Pink, I am using the pink generator in the Martinsound
Multimax EX. I also have Dolby callibrate my room everytime we Printmaster. It is "on the money"!
I liked the funtionality and ease of use of the Multimax so I chose that. The Tascam came out right after my purchase. Is the Martinsound perfect, No. It just works for my way of mixing (Two man Re-Recording).
There is often more than one means to achieve an end. I'm glad to hear (no pun intended) that the Martinsound works for you. Since I have the Tascam, and used its noise to calibrate a room, I just want to know what the alleged problem is, that's all. Hopefully that'll get the thread back on track.
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  #112  
Old 02-17-2005, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post

Chief,
Funkcity will post his findings here and we'll see what's up.
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  #113  
Old 02-18-2005, 11:27 AM
Richard Fairbanks Richard Fairbanks is offline
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Default Re: UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post

I have found that the Tascam's filtered pink is way off, it seems like they simply applied the filter but did not adjust to make up for the resulting power loss. An SPL meter therefore does not read correctly. I never thought to check it before! The unfiltered, though, is what I expect it to be.
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  #114  
Old 02-18-2005, 07:45 PM
Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Default Re: UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post

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I have found that the Tascam's filtered pink is way off
Time for a recalibration! I wonder if this is what funkcity was getting @?
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  #115  
Old 02-19-2005, 06:37 AM
Richard Fairbanks Richard Fairbanks is offline
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Default Re: UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post

Maybe. The difference seemed to be about 7.5 db, much worse than I had remembered and so I've edited this post.

Perhaps you should download those bluesky test files. As far as I can tell they are pretty much on the money. Compared to the -20dbfs setup tone, the full bandwidth noise measures .7db low on my RMS RTA, but I believe it is because the full noise was actually hi-passed around 40hz. The bottom octave, if it were present, would make up the difference. The band limited noise is, I believe, on the money. The LFE setup noise is also hi passed at 40, and it also measures .7db low on my equipment. That half db is nothing to worry about in my opinion.
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  #116  
Old 02-19-2005, 09:33 AM
AUDIOSFX AUDIOSFX is offline
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Default Re: UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post

Pink in the Tascam DSM 7.1 is incorrect but there is an IC firmware replacement you can order from tascam to fix the problem. After lamenting over this issue with another colleague it was the only solution we could find. It turns out it was another problem that made the pink unusable, contact tascam. In addition to that, Digi's pink is unusable upon rta analysis as well. I would be more inclined to use dolbys pink or find "god pink" if it is available to you. Calibration cds are a serious problem unless you cal to -10 or you have a balanced cd/dvd player. It might work on a theater A chain but not in a +4 environment. AC3 encoded material is compressed very compressed the only way you can acheive this is using DSD or DVD A standard mlp encoded or strict pcm encoded cal material.
No debate here just some help on the tascam issue and potential nightmare caling consumer playback gear. Remember most commercial dvds are being remixed and hyped for nearfield consumer environments,cal being 80db to make an even hotter mix.



A question for FUNKCITY...

"It is for TV, DVD:
-20 dBFS = 0VU = +4 dBu = 85 dBC SPL for L,C,R,LS,RS and on a Real Time Analyzer 10 dB of inband gain above the center channel from 20 ~ 30 hz to 120 hz"

How did you arrive at this figure for TV calibration? And why would you induce low frequency gain?

When base management is going to extrapolate from all 100hz and < material and stear it to the lfe?

This calibration methode makes no sense to me.


-ws
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  #117  
Old 02-19-2005, 12:10 PM
Richard Fairbanks Richard Fairbanks is offline
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Default Re: UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post

The full band pink noise coming from my DSM7.1 is correct according to my IVIE IE-33 (not a "lab grade" instument but good enough for audio work)! It matches two other pink noise sources I have here and is in agreement with Dolby's -20 noise, both in terms of level and frequency spectrum. Okay, the truth is there is a slight rise above 10Khz, which is nearly eliminated if you run the box at 96Khz (double clock'd 48k). The rise is about +1 at 20Khz. This was measured on an analog output, I suspect the digital output is okay. The band limited noise is at a wrong level, by a lot, and I have edited my previous post to correct my inaccurate statements. I will investigate whether there is firmware upgrade to correct it.

Digi's pink is a little unusual on both accounts. The level is 2.5db too much, and the amount of power in some of the frequency bands looks a bit off, with 1 to 1.5 db dips around 250hz and 8khz. The dips are very smooth and very broad, and gives the imaginary "straight line" response more of a gentle wave shape. Since most speaker systems and rooms are far worse than that, I don't think it would be a serious problem to set up a room with it, if nothing else was available, as long as you accounted for the level problem. But, it is not perfect.
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  #118  
Old 02-20-2005, 09:09 AM
georgia georgia is offline
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Default Re: UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post

I have a Dolby Set up Protools session, offered at no charge by dolby here in NYC. It has everything you need to calibrate and test with in a protool session for 5.1.. If you need it send me an email and i'll burn a copy of the session for you. I use it with Dolby everytime we printmaster.... I've never used my DSM 7.1 pink to calibrate , but now i'm going to test it to see if it matches Dolby's pink or not....

cheers
georgia
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  #119  
Old 03-15-2005, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post

Quote:
funkcity writes:
Quote:
The Hollywood community, The Motion Picture Academy, Dolby, DTS, Sony, Fox, Disney, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Ascent, Universal were and STILL ARE on the "OLD" standard. And that standard relied on a mechanical VU meter, the Dolby DS-4, or a led style VU averaging meter.
funkcity also writes
Quote:
...I can make them a cal CD based on INDUSTRY STANDARD COMMON PRACTICE which should help clear the fog.
It is certainly hard to know what to believe with so many opinions floating. As far as I am concerned, INDUSTRY STANDARD COMMON PRACTICE is exactly what The Hollywood community, The Motion Picture Academy, Dolby, DTS, Sony, Fox, Disney, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Ascent, Universal, and nearly every other person are currently doing. It is the INDUSTRY's COMMON PRACTICE.
Since I've set up and calibrated my room, I've been very confused by one thing (well more than one, but this one really bothers me). If everyone is mixing to 85 dbSPL then why does the level vary so much from DVD to DVD? Are they re-mastered in the MusicIndustry sense? Put on Saving Private Ryan and you need to strap yourself to your chair it's so freaking loud . . . then play Lost in Translation and you really want to turn it up. Many other titles are the same . . . what gives?

Also for TV broadcast if I calibrate my room to -20 = 0VU=79dbSPL, there is no way I can listen to narration at anywhere near 0VU, again it is way too loud. I have to turn the monitors down about 10db for a comfortable listening level.

TIA,
jim
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  #120  
Old 04-21-2005, 06:10 PM
Tiago Silva Tiago Silva is offline
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Default Re: UPDATED Room Calibration for Film and TV Post

Yes, Jim, they are being "remastered". Some do it in a "living room", some put an L2 and push it to , some just take a peak reading and normalize to full sample.

And, I also got confused with funkcity's recommendation for TV/DVD. Was he referring to "HDTV and DVD 5.1 mixes"?
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