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Old 03-19-2007, 06:36 PM
calibos calibos is offline
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Default Dealing with Phasing in my mix

I am in the process of mixing several songs.

All parts have been recorded (gtr., bass, vox & drums: kick, snare, hihat, overhead toms, floor toms and 2 overheads; one overehead on 2 tracks with a condenser).

I am going to start from the ground up with the drums. I have done some extensive submixing with the kit using EQ and channel strip plugins to get an overall good sound out of the kit. So far so good.

My concerns at this point are regarding phasing and finding what's in and out of phase in the mix. It sound like, from what I have been reading, that phasing is an issue that is almost always constant with at least one of the mic or instrument in a mix. Either between an overhead mic or a kick and snare mic. If something is out of phase would it be glaring and obvious or do I need to solo a track, put an eq on it and sample the phasing buttons on and off to hear the difference? My understanding of phasing is young and sort of clear at this point.

I am looking for some further direction regarding phasing so my drummer and I can feel our mix is as good as it can be. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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Old 03-19-2007, 09:46 PM
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Park Seward Park Seward is offline
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Default Re: Dealing with Phasing in my mix

You have to listen to phase in relation to something else. For example, listening to one track in solo will not show any difference. If you have two mics on a cabinet and put one out of phase, you will hear a big difference. In fact, if you have two indentical mics hearing the same source and you put one out of phase, most of the sound will cancell out and you'll hear little.

If you have an SM-57 on top of the snare and a condensor mic underneath, the two mics will be out of phase with each other. When the drum is hit, the two mic diaphrams will be traveling in opposite directions since they are on opposite sides of the snare skin. You will have to flip the phase of one. If you have other mics on top of the kit, then you would flip the phase of the mic below the snare.

Some phase is not so black and white. Distance will effect phase. Take that same kit and add a room mic 10 feet away. Some frequencies will cancel and some will increase depending on what sound arrived at that mic due to room comb filter effects.

Some mic pre amps will invert the phase of a mic. One way to check is to take two mics and two pres and mix them evenly. In phase will add volume to the sound, out of phase will reduce the volume of the sound.

Doobie Brothers, "Listen to the Music" has that phase sound around the middle eight. That is a gradual shift in the timing relationship of the music. We used to do that with a turntable.

Oopps. Sorry to get off-topic.

BTW, you may like an out-of-phase sound. Two mics out of phase on a crunch guitar may sound good.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:03 PM
calibos calibos is offline
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Default Re: Dealing with Phasing in my mix

This clarifies quite a bit. I beleive all my questions are answered for now. There is always much to learn about recording and engineering but ultimately if your ears are happy then I guess that's all that matters. Thank You.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:28 PM
calibos calibos is offline
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Default Re: Dealing with Phasing in my mix

Can you explain furthur on how the Doobies' did that? Now I can just run a phaser plugin or pedal on a track or mix. They had phase pedals back then didn't they? And if so why not use a pedal instead. grant it, the effect in the song seems very organic and sounds amazing.

Is it just the mix being run on two tracks and then running one slightly faster or slower...thus the turntable effect?
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:47 PM
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Park Seward Park Seward is offline
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Default Re: Dealing with Phasing in my mix

They probably used an analog tape machine with a VCO (voltage controlled oscillator) to vary the speed of the machine. Play two machines back in sync and then slowly vary the speed of one machine and you'll get that effect.

Of course it could be done electronically. I'm not sure what they used. I heard that they had a box they would take with them on the road.

But today you can get that great sound for $82.50!

http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/EHSmallStone.html
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The Transfer Lab at Video Park
Analog tape to Pro Tools transfers, 1/4"-2"
http://www.videopark.com
MacPro 6 core 3.33 GHz, OS 10.12.1, 8 GB RAM, PT12.6.1, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, PreSonus DigiMax, MC Control V3.5, dual displays,
Neumann U-47, Tab V76 mic pre, RCA 44BX and 77DX, MacBook Pro 9,1, 2.3 Mhz, i7, CBS Labs Audimax and Volumax.
Ampex 440B half-track and four-track, 351 tube full-track mono, MM-1100 16-track.
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Old 03-20-2007, 03:09 PM
calibos calibos is offline
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Default Re: Dealing with Phasing in my mix

Outta sight!
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