Plugins / Delay Compensation / Timing / Downbeat [PT-263943]

[TrackerLe]

The big problem with the missing sidechain DC in native Protools Ultimate is
SESSION COMPATIBILITY....
As HDX User, i can work with sc dc, but the difficulties are starting, when i share this session with a drummer, guitarist or whatever, who is using Protools Ultimate Native...The next thing is post pro... PTU native is useless, cause there is no SC DC...



The question is, what is so difficult to implement this feature in the native Mixer of Protools Ultimate. And the truth is, Logic, Nuendo, Studio One and so on can handle side chain delay compensation... And these daws are definitely cheaper than Protools Ultimate...


Sure, you can use the workaround to duplicate the tracks and use one without plugins as trigger for the sidechain, but this destroys a constant workflow...especially when you are in the process of making a track (daftpunk style for example) with VIs....


And how does ducking and sidechain compressing work in a film scenario with lets say more than 200 tracks in native Protools Ultimate...


Its disappointing... Especially if you look at other DAWs without this problem...

[Franklyn]

Right!

So Avid, lets do it ! :)

[JingleDjango]

I've received confirmation from Avid support that there is no automatic delay compensation for MIDI events in Pro Tools. I suspect this is the root cause of these sync issues related but not limited to LFOTool, Filter Gate, etc.

[XJENSEN]

Wow, Protools FIST. Former Industry Standard.

[bolooki]

hit Avid's twitter and the CEO's twitter about this. bring some attention.

I think you all are correct in that not everyone knows their sync'd plugins are going out of line as they work...

[RTGraham]

Originally Posted by JingleDjango

I've received confirmation from Avid support that there is no automatic delay compensation for MIDI events in Pro Tools. I suspect this is the root cause of these sync issues related but not limited to LFOTool, Filter Gate, etc.

I actually could see this being, well, not so much of a showstopper if it only affected MIDI performances. Kind of along the lines of "we don't want to alter the subtle nuances of a human performance captured as MIDI unless the user actually wants to quantize, edit, etc.; and we don't want to introduce any lag into the real-time MIDI response."

There could be a certain logic to that.

But as soon as the application starts providing MIDI information to *audio* plugins that rely on that information to synchronize their processing - including plugins bundled with the application itself - then it really needs to make that MIDI information accurate to the rest of the audio's timing.

Originally Posted by bolooki

I think you all are correct in that not everyone knows their sync'd plugins are going out of line as they work...

This certainly seems to have been something that for a long time either didn't affect people, or else they just weren't aware was affecting them.
It'll be interesting to see if the behavior gets changed in future updates / versions.

[XJENSEN]

They really need to solve this.

One more example. Bad enough there's no ARA, but because of this, e.g. Melodyne's internal display runs out of sync. When editing fast rhythmic parts, this is problematic. Celemony replied to me that this is absolutely Avid's problem.

[RTGraham]

Originally Posted by XJENSEN

They really need to solve this.

One more example. Bad enough there's no ARA, but because of this, e.g. Melodyne's internal display runs out of sync. When editing fast rhythmic parts, this is problematic. Celemony replied to me that this is absolutely Avid's problem.

Which version of Melodyne are you using, and have you made sure it knows the session's tempo map?

If the session has a constant tempo, and if you haven't changed the session's tempo after instantiating Melodyne, then Melodyne should know the tempo and should line up its display correctly.

If you've changed the session's tempo after Melodyne was instantiated, then the display may no longer line up until you tell Melodyne that the tempo has changed.
Somewhere in the general vicinity of the upper left corner of the Melodyne window, you should see an icon that looks kind of like a couple of chain links.
If they look "broken" then Melodyne has already realized that it might not know your tempo map.
If you click on that icon, you can tell Melodyne the new tempo.

If your session has a fluctuating tempo map, then you *definitely* need to tell Melodyne the map - and that same icon is where you do it.
But instead of just telling Melodyne that there's a constant tempo (and what it is), you'll instead need to tell Melodyne that there will be a changing tempo map and then you'll need to play back - in real time - the portion of the session that contains the full range of the tempo changes.
It's safest to do this before transferring any audio into Melodyne, but even if you've already transferred audio, Melodyne *should* be able to realign the display correctly as long as the Autostretch button isn't highlighted.

Maybe you're already aware of all of this stuff - but following these guidelines, I've almost never had problems with the display lining up. (But if I forget any aspect of these steps or details, then yeah, the display winds up misaligned.)

Yes, ARA would be a huge time- and effort-saver in this regard.
At the same time, having used technology that was similar to ARA (in this instance, the linked behavior of Roland's V-Vocal inside Cakewalk SONAR many years ago) I'm aware that there's extra potential for something to go wrong at some point once you start linking things and expecting them to chase edit procedures for you. Sometimes the "hidden source layer" aspect of V-Vocal would break, and it was a real mess to chase down when it did.

[weezul]

I've always had the same problem with filter gate on MIDI instruments, and OneKnob Pumper as well. Rendering the tracks comes out off the grid and I have to nudge them.

[Franklyn]

For me this is a BUG and not a feature.
Timing is the most important thing a DAW should give us.
So ADC has to be implented in every aspect of playback and routing.
MIDI, Sidechain, Audio !