Does anyone actually have a stable PT/EUCON system?

[zakco]

I'm at the end of my rope.

After a decade of my bulletproof Mountain Lion, PT10/12.4, D-Command system, I was finally forced for business reasons to modernize. I built a new custom desk, bought a Mac Mini M2 Pro, a pair of S1s, a Dock, 3 tablets, a giant tangle of cables, adapters, ethernet switches, spent the better part of a week installing and testing and paid AVID $1k to get back on the train. I started out with PT 2023.3 and Eucon 2022.12. While I was somewhat horrified by the complexity of this system, the results were encouraging - blazing fast computer, Aux I/O (the reason I updated) and the scale-able, configurable power of Eucon. I ran this for a couple of months trouble free with all of my plugins and 3rd party software installed and happy. I had many high pressure ADR sessions, mixed 10 episodes a TV show and a couple of long, critical VO sessions - all great...

Then my ipad auto-updated (my fault) to Avid control 2023.6. This left me with only 2 options: update the other 2 tablets and the desktop software or lose the iPad (my dock tablet). After seeing Eddies quick patch, I gambled and updated everything except PT. Immediately, the entire system became unstable. Random, unexplainable, seeming unrelated crashes several times per day. One of them during a celebrity author's audiobook recording with mulitiple producers online remotely. No plugins, no quick moves, no video, just 1 audio track and a couple of Aux channels. The talent was in the middle of reading, I wasn't touching ANYTHING - just poof. PT is gone. Very embarrassing and I doubt I'll get another call from that publisher.

I've re-installed everything, but the problem persists. I had one better day where I didn't use any tablets and only had one crash (that I think can be explained). The next day I went back to the tablets and the instability returned. I'm not losing connection or anything obviously EUCON related, just PT weirdness but why on earth would this suddenly begin immediately after the 23.6 update and not be related? FWIW, I'm running Rosetta due to iZotope (and a couple of other vendors). At this point it's not an option to ditch iZotope.

Perhaps it's premature, but I'm considering selling this entire pile of Eucon, tossing PT 23.3 into the trash, eating the money and rebuilding my old rig. It will a hard pill to swallow after so much time energy and money, but at the moment I fail to see an alternative. It's just not possible to run a professional business on a platform that is so incredibly flaky.
Reading the many threads in various DUC forums I see a wide range of different and complicated issues with PT some of them unresolved after YEARS of being logged. Why can't AVID just stop adding any new features and focus on bringing back the stability that built this products reputation as a professional solution in the first place? I'd rather poke my own eyes out than edit or mix in Reaper but that app NEVER crashes in my experience. Given this experience, I think it's unlikely I'll ever spend a single dime on another AVID product. Sorry for the rant but I'm just really really frustrated.

So...does anyone actually have a modern PT/EUCON system that they trust 100% in high pressure situations with clients? If so, what exactly are you doing differently than me?

[Cheesehead]

Sorry to hear your rig is playing up.
My system is stable.
I always hang back and wait for the dust to settle on a new release.
I think the crucial thing which caused your frustration is having the ipad set to auto update. An easy thing to miss on a new rig build.
Once this new release with the fixes Eddie and the team are working on comes out everything will settle again.
The Ipad thing is very annoying as there's no way to get back to a previous version unless you keep 2 and have one as a backup.
Might be worth it from a business point of view?

[Will Russell]

I feel your pain. I did the same and retired an old D-Command based rig and I have issues with my 2 S1s and Dock pretty much daily. The current 2023.6 version of Pro Tools and the recent EUCON update seem especially problematic.

Pro Tools has failed so totally recently that I ended up uninstalling/reinstalling PT and EUCON in front of a client. This NEVER happened with my old D-Command based system.

On the positive side, when it's running well it's amazing! I'm looking forward to figuring out the bugs and getting this thing solid!

PS Eddie's plist fix has made things much more stable!

[its2loud]

So...does anyone actually have a modern PT/EUCON system that they trust 100% in high pressure situations with clients? If so, what exactly are you doing differently than me?

Yes. Many people have stable systems. Myself include with the same computer as you. It is unfortunate that you are having so many issues and your posts have spread wide across the forums so it’s a bit difficult to track what steps you’ve taken to troubleshoot them. I have not read that you’ve ruled out any plug-in issues. You say you have to run under Rosetta because if Izotope. Why is that?

I’m sure it’s been frustrating for you to have so many problems but there are solutions.

[Rich Breen]

Originally Posted by zakco

...So...does anyone actually have a modern PT/EUCON system that they trust 100% in high pressure situations with clients? If so, what exactly are you doing differently than me?

I have no data, but my system is stable, as are any of the half-dozen or so Eucon-based rigs I'm involved with around town - some Intel Mac Pros or mostly Rosetta on Mac Studios.

Your Eucon version (.6) is newer than your PT version (.3), yes? I don't know if that's a stability issue (Eddie might know), but it doesn't seem like a good idea. Personally, I have not moved Eucon up to the latest and am waiting for the next update. I generally hang back at least a couple weeks on upgrades to see what others are experiencing. *ALWAYS* keep auto-update off on your tablets!

I'd suggest updating PT to the current version and/or downgrade Eucon and run without tablets for the time being and see how it goes.

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Cheesehead

Sorry to hear your rig is playing up.
My system is stable.
I always hang back and wait for the dust to settle on a new release.
I think the crucial thing which caused your frustration is having the ipad set to auto update. An easy thing to miss on a new rig build.
Once this new release with the fixes Eddie and the team are working on comes out everything will settle again.
The Ipad thing is very annoying as there's no way to get back to a previous version unless you keep 2 and have one as a backup.
Might be worth it from a business point of view?

All True. I've always hung WAY back from the bleeding edge. I was running PT 10 TDM for tracking right up until a few months ago! I have a perpetual licence and my plan for this system was to get it stable and lock it down for another decade. I considered buying another tablet but that won't help me now because the app store won't let me install an older version.

[zakco]

Originally Posted by its2loud

Yes. Many people have stable systems. Myself include with the same computer as you. It is unfortunate that you are having so many issues and your posts have spread wide across the forums so it’s a bit difficult to track what steps you’ve taken to troubleshoot them.

Which posts are you referring to?

I have various posts with general PT questions in different (hopefully appropriate) forums but I have not posted about this instability anywhere else (I think) except Eddie's 23.6 quick patch post in this same forum. Because I don't know for sure what's causing the issue, I didn't want to continue to soil that thread, so I started this one.

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Rich Breen

I have no data, but my system is stable, as are any of the half-dozen or so Eucon-based rigs I'm involved with around town - some Intel Mac Pros or mostly Rosetta on Mac Studios.

That's encouraging to hear.

Your Eucon version (.6) is newer than your PT version (.3), yes? I don't know if that's a stability issue (Eddie might know), but it doesn't seem like a good idea.

Agreed. But there are so many reports of new problems with 23.6 that it seems like yet another risky move. As I said, 23.3 was super stable right up until the moment I updated EUCON. It's especially hard to get behind the idea of updating PT when I see posts like the this one from Will above:

Originally Posted by Will Russell

I feel your pain. I did the same and retired an old D-Command based rig and I have issues with my 2 S1s and Dock pretty much daily. The current 2023.6 version of Pro Tools and the recent EUCON update seem especially problematic.

Pro Tools has failed so totally on some days that I ended up uninstalling/reinstalling PT and EUCON in front of a client. This NEVER happened with my old D-Command based system. NEVER.

So...clearly it's not just me.

Personally, I have not moved Eucon up to the latest and am waiting for the next update. I generally hang back at least a couple weeks on upgrades to see what others are experiencing. *ALWAYS* keep auto-update off on your tablets!

. Of course. 2 out of my 3 tablets had it turned off, but it's an easy mistake to make when building a new, complex system such as this. The fact that something so simple and dangerous cannot be undone (even by buying a brand new tablet!), shows how incredibly fragile this system truly is. I realize that's apples fault, but still, I can't believe it's so easy to break stuff.

I'd suggest updating PT to the current version and/or downgrade Eucon and run without tablets for the time being and see how it goes.

Running without tablets on the S1s is fine but the dock tablet is the entire reason I bought this rig. Dialog mixing with a mouse is just not going to work for me beyond a few hours. I'd rather sell this mess, throw away my new studio furniture and go back to PT 12.4 and my D-Command on a cheesegrater.

[its2loud]

I run 3 S1's + Dock with 4 Android tablets. All without any of the issues you're describing along with an M2 Mac Studio, OS Ventura and PT 2023.6.

There has to be something within your setup, migration, plugins, adapters, network, etc. that is causing your issues. It's not a matter of "it just doesn't work".

If you want to just vent in the forums, feel free, but if you want some help in trying to troubleshoot these issues you're going to have to provide some information about your system and how you went about setting it up from the start. Just saying "it all worked before Eucon 2023.6" isn't helpful at all.

Have you tried the following?

1. Completely uninstall all traces of Eucon and run the system. Is it stable?
2. Do a clean install of Eucon, attach the surfaces without the tablets and run. It is stable?
3. Connect just one tablet (Dock). Make sure the wifi you're connecting to is ONLY used for Eucon. Is it stable?
4. Connect remaining tablets (meters) if you want to. Is it stable?

If you aren't using a dedicated Wifi network for the tablets, I recommend you do so.

Go out and buy a cheap Android or Fire tablet. one that you can return easily if you don't need it. Test the system with this tablet and see if there's any difference in stability.

[Rich Breen]

Originally Posted by zakco

...Agreed. But there are so many reports of new problems with 23.6 that it seems like yet another risky move

Been good here - PT 23.3 had some serious ARA issues that have gotten better with .6, and I haven't seen any new issues crop up as a result. Personally, I'd say 23.6 is safe - YMMV. I still would love to hear from someone more knowledgeable than me if running Eucon 23.6 with ProTools 23.3 is a stability problem.

2 out of my 3 tablets had it turned off, but it's an easy mistake to make when building a new, complex system such as this....

Agreed - life would be better if Apple and the other tablet "stores" allowed downgrading, but they don't, and Avid is held prisoner by the same walled garden as the rest of us.

Running without tablets on the S1s is fine but the dock tablet is the entire reason I bought this rig....

Don't know what to tell you - these systems can work perfectly well. This issue with Eucon 23.6 is a bit more of a mess than usual, but hopefully sorted soon. I certainly have my share of complaints - mostly UI stuff - but none of them have been show-stoppers (with the exception of the 'lost ARA data' in 23.3). I've offered a few ideas - I hope they help.