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  #1  
Old 04-14-2016, 09:59 AM
efisch efisch is offline
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Default Editors using clip gain in Adobe Premiere

Having some new problems with files I'm getting from editors:

I'm starting to get omf's and aaf's from editors using Adobe Premiere where their mix is done using clip "gain" instead of what Adobe calls "volume" (which is the output fader).

As it was shown to me by an editor it's much faster for them to adjust the gain of the clip rather than changing windows to adjust the fader level. So I get that for them it's easier. Typical Adobe over complicating things.

These clip gain settings are recognized by Pro Tools on import, and obviously I have the option to import those settings or not.

Form me, this isn't a big deal for dialog, interviews, etc. I just zero out the editors clip gain settings and start over. But for music and effects it's a bigger problem for me work flow and time wise. With Avid and FCP projects I didn't have to deal with it t all, and I'd have a good visual reference of the editors mix with the volume automation. Which I could use or ignore.

But now in Premiere I'm seeing editors cut up audio, add crossfades and reduce clip gain to achieve dips in music where it used to be done with simple volume automation. Big pain for me to have to reverse engineer this stuff in order to maintain a proper gain level of clips (bit depth, etc.) and gain staging thru plug ins.

I hope I'm explaining this correctly. It's a trend in editors that I'd love to reverse. How do we feel about this?
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Old 04-14-2016, 10:18 AM
quadraphonics quadraphonics is offline
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Default Re: Editors using clip gain in Adobe Premiere

If you are on HD, you can convert or coelesce the Clip Gain into volume automation (you can go the other way too, which is pretty cool). It is under Edit>Automation.

Randall
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  #3  
Old 04-14-2016, 10:38 AM
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TVPostSound TVPostSound is offline
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Default Re: Editors using clip gain in Adobe Premiere

This is not just an Adobe thing.
Its the norm with Avid Media Composer editors.

Why zero out and start over?? You're increasing your work load.
Editors' clip gain levels is a good start.
I stopped fighting that years ago.

Same with the editors' music cut and gain, thats been around for over 10 years.

Stop fighting it!!

Globally adjust their clip gain close to where you want it, and ride with automation.
Its nice having faders in the middle of the board!!

Lastly, an EP sits in with the offline editor, and has them adjust levels, so they are used to those levels.
Ive done what you said, and mixed my levels my way, and have been called on it.

I now keep the editors rough levels, and tweak to taste.

Less stress.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:18 PM
Postman Postman is offline
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Default Re: Editors using clip gain in Adobe Premiere

Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
If you are on HD, you can convert or coelesce the Clip Gain into volume automation (you can go the other way too, which is pretty cool). It is under Edit>Automation.

Randall
+1
The editor's mixing skills are usually primative. I may use them as a reference point, particularly while editing production tracks, but honestly I always get rid of them eventually.

I agree wholehearedly that all those extra fades just get in the way, both visually and editorially. At least when the tracks come from Media Composer, we can remove fades and heal the edits. Can't always do that from Premier or FCP.
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Old 04-14-2016, 04:54 PM
philper philper is offline
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Default Re: Editors using clip gain in Adobe Premiere

I'm ok with their clip gain if they are using it just to mix with. Some editors do all their fine sound editing with keyframe volume auto levels, only rough cutting the clip lengths and then fine cutting by keyframing up and down within the clip. This keyframe levelling comes in as fader automation, and there is probably NOT a clip boundary at every point where there is a zero -to-nominal keyframe fader move to edit in and out of a clip. This is very not good, and I've turned down shows where they did this.
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Old 04-14-2016, 05:38 PM
Brandonx1 Brandonx1 is offline
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Default Re: Editors using clip gain in Adobe Premiere

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Originally Posted by TVPostSound View Post
Lastly, an EP sits in with the offline editor, and has them adjust levels, so they are used to those levels.
Ive done what you said, and mixed my levels my way, and have been called on it.

Less stress.
What do they say? You're trying too hard to make the show sound good?? No but I get that too. Then I play them the temp mix and they go, oh ok.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:53 AM
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TVPostSound TVPostSound is offline
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Default Re: Editors using clip gain in Adobe Premiere

Ill get a co-ep play the offline mix down on their laptop, and tell me thats how they want it.
Or I fix music edits, and keep the hits in time, but want the bad edit returned!!!
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:28 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: Editors using clip gain in Adobe Premiere

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVPostSound View Post
Ill get a co-ep play the offline mix down on their laptop, and tell me thats how they want it.
Or I fix music edits, and keep the hits in time, but want the bad edit returned!!!
Keeping bad music edits is a pet peeve of mine. If I can make it work better and still hit where they want, what exactly is the problem? Somebody's feelings are hurt? Most editors can't edit music. Either they don't have the tools or the time (or the talent). Sometimes I wish they would just tweak a few frames on their edit to make the music work as-is....

But this clip gain thing isn't new. I don't mind it because it's easy to see and hear the intention and then ignore. The keyframe fades that Philper mentioned is a nightmare.
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Old 04-17-2016, 01:02 PM
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TVPostSound TVPostSound is offline
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Default Re: Editors using clip gain in Adobe Premiere

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Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post
Keeping bad music edits is a pet peeve of mine. If I can make it work better and still hit where they want, what exactly is the problem? Somebody's feelings are hurt? Most editors can't edit music. Either they don't have the tools or the time (or the talent). Sometimes I wish they would just tweak a few frames on their edit to make the music work as-is....

But this clip gain thing isn't new. I don't mind it because it's easy to see and hear the intention and then ignore. The keyframe fades that Philper mentioned is a nightmare.
I never said keep the bad edits. I mentioned that a producer liked a certain music edit though it was not correct. I did what they wanted, THEY pay me!!
My feelings aren't hurt, not at all. Sounds like your feelings would be hurt in that situation.

Fix the edits leave the cut and fade that is used to clip gain.
Editors only do that under dialog and interviews.
If the edit is fixed, the cross fade means nothing.

I edit dialog music effects, and mix two 45 minute shows a week.
You will never hear a music edit on my shows.

Dialog? Some is recorded so low, that the editors clip gain actually helps get it in the ball park.
Why delete the clip gain, and redo it?? Just nudge it during editing, and ride it in the mix.
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Old 04-18-2016, 11:28 AM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: Editors using clip gain in Adobe Premiere

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Originally Posted by TVPostSound View Post
I never said keep the bad edits. I mentioned that a producer liked a certain music edit though it was not correct. I did what they wanted, THEY pay me!!
My feelings aren't hurt, not at all. Sounds like your feelings would be hurt in that situation.

Fix the edits leave the cut and fade that is used to clip gain.
Editors only do that under dialog and interviews.
If the edit is fixed, the cross fade means nothing.

I edit dialog music effects, and mix two 45 minute shows a week.
You will never hear a music edit on my shows.

Dialog? Some is recorded so low, that the editors clip gain actually helps get it in the ball park.
Why delete the clip gain, and redo it?? Just nudge it during editing, and ride it in the mix.
Hmm, we might be thinking of different circumstances then. I don't really have a problem with my broadcast clients, they expect me to fix the music and of course no producer wants to hear an edit. But I've worked with more than one preditor, usually for web or corporate projects, that did not want their work to be touched at all. Too many beats in that measure, abrupt and conflicting key change, whatever the glaring problem it stayed because that's how they wanted it. OK as long as they're paying me. But it makes me cringe to hear it.

And I learned long ago not to get my feelings hurt. Keeping clients happy is way more important. I'll put up with all the sh**ty temp FX and music edits in the world as long as I can do what I love for a living.
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