Comparison Protools 6.7 / Logic Pro 7

[William 2014]

Hello, i was wondering if anybody knows of a place where the two softwares get a comparison of the features they have , something like when you buy a new car kinda thing.
I have a friend who needs this info and i can't help him cause i don't know Logic (just the basics), always been a PT user.
Any suggestions , links, or whatever you think might be usefull?

In advance , thank you so much for any info on the subject

Will

[stoogee]

Yeah you could tell him this, in short:

Logic sucks, Protools rules.

SG

[William 2014]

Thanx stoogee but i really need a serious answer

[yavuzj]

This requires a really really long answer but I will take a shot at keeping it short and meaningful.

1. MIDI:
Logic is lights year ahead.
No comparison.
MIDI was rather recently added to PT so it's not fair to compare.

In Logic, you can use many many Soft Synths without a major load (This is all for 6.4.3 since I do not have 7 yet).

Logic has this feature called environment which does not exist in any other package.
What does it do?
Think about your MIDI hardware.
Be it sound module, keyboard or EFX processor.
You can build an exact replica of it in software from virtual knobs, virtual cables and sliders to make your own editor.
If you own a POD XT or has seen one, you should know Line6 Edit software.
I had built an environment that did exact the same thing for my POD 2.0.
I think it is still downloadable at http://www.swiftkick.com which is Environment Guru Len Sasso's site.
So, if I ever moved a knob on my POD 2.0, it would move the knobs on the screen and change the parameters.
You can use CC controller messages or even SysEx messages to communicate.
This allows you to record and playback your mods which is also possible in PT LE w/o the editor and moving knobs.

Logic's quantize is amazing.
It is never permenant.
It is used like a plugin or effect.
You can turn it off and you just undoed your quantize after 10 months into the 100th version of the song.

Logic also has MIDI efx and I could not begin to describe them.
However, imagine controlling your MIDI delay effect with your velocity.
The harder you play the longer the delay.
It is all possible to cable these modules together(virtually).

On the negative side, it is hard to learn these features and 90% (or more) of the users just leave it alone.
I learned it but it took me years.
I learned to program in C# and actionscript a lot easier.
(It's not an exaggeration.)

2. Score features:
I can not compare it to PT LE since it does not exist in PT LE.
In short, you can print professional looking scores from Logic.
Again, it is really hard to master.

3. Built in EFX:
Logic wins hands down.
I do not know any other package that offers that many good sounding efx.
Far more superior than PT LEs built in FX.( I have not tried the new EQIII)
With PT LE, you can buy expensive good sounding plugins if you pay extra.

4. Built in Soft Synths/Samplers
If you buy Logic Pro, technically you are all set.
You can get any sound from synth basses to samplers etc...
PT LE has a looooooong way to go here.
Basic RTAS soft synths are not really usable.
Rewire is but Logic has Rewire as well and it works really nice.

5. Screen sets.
90 of them. Open each window be it plugin or other things.
Save it up to 90 of them. And call them back at the touch of a button.
PT LE has only 2 screens so it does not really need it.

6. Audio editing:
PT LE wins hands down.
That is why most people do everything else at Logic and export each track seperately.
Then edit Mix in PT LE.
PT LE's mixing engine sounds more tape-like to me.
Logic's mixng engine is very very clean and somewhat 3 dimensional.
I like PT LE's mixing engine. (Very subjective opinions here. Take with a grain of salt.)

That's all I can think of for now but there is a lot more to it.
If you are wondering about Logic,
then you should get it.
It means you hit your limits with PT LE.
You may need an extra tool.

Here comes the punch line:
You can make all of your music in PT LE and be really famous/successful etc...
All you need is concentration and creativity.
However, Logic is a very very nice toy to play with.
I loved playing with it for many years.

[mersis]

I agree that logic sounds clearer and 3 dimensional

automation is better in pro tools IMO

logic pro has surround sound

logic comes also with multiband comps and a mastering limiter

as well as other audio plugins

but logic 7 is not as stable as Le IMO

Id suggest waiting for either logic to become stable or for pro tools 7 which ever apps he / she chooses

[William 2014]

Yavuzj your reply is awesome and it's really appreciated, even i want to buy Logic now.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write it !
Mersis thanx to you too of course


I'm seriously considering to buy and learn Logic myself but will i need it that much if i've been using
Digital Performer since 2.7 ? (mostly for midi)

Think about your MIDI hardware.
Be it sound module, keyboard or EFX processor.
You can build an exact replica of it in software
Wow this is really amazing !

[yavuzj]

Think about your MIDI hardware.
Be it sound module, keyboard or EFX processor.
You can build an exact replica of it in software
Wow this is really amazing !

OK. I am glad you like it but remember I also said:

On the negative side, it is hard to learn these features and 90% (or more) of the users just leave it alone.

Just trying to make sure you read between the lines as well.

[mersis]

why dont you download the logic express demo

and you know you have LE at your rig so

[lwilliam]

Yavuz, many of your points are valid. However, I'll add a few of my own just so the argument is a bit more balanced.

"Basic RTAS soft synths are not really usable."

Huh? Look at my sig to see how many quality softsynths I use. I also just bought East West Symphony Silver Edition. It also runs great. There are very few plugins that are available in AU format that aren't ALSO available in RTAS format and there are a whole group of RTAS and/or TDM plugins that aren't available for AU.

Screen Sets...hmmm. The main reason you need 90 of them is because you have to have 6 different windows open at a time in order to do anything productive (sarcasm here). Which window does which function? Which submenu in which window does what I want? Each window has it's own submenu with functions that aren't available from the main menu. Let's see, which screen set opens which set of windows that will let me enter a short fade-out. Which submenu in which window allows me to change the velocity of a range of notes?

It's basic workflow stuff like the above that drove me AWAY from Logic and keeps me using PTLE.

I do miss the scoring features, which is one reason I'm learning DP 4.5.

Yes, Logic has the "environment". At times it kind of looks like a mixer until you try to go past the 16 or 24 basic faders you have to set up at the beginning of a session. Try adding ONE new audio track to your 24 channel mixer - it's not easily expandable like the PT mixer: a HUGE interuption to your workflow. The environment is an object-oriented PROGRAMMING environment. I want to record and write music, not program. I can get a copy of C++ if I want to program. I'm not really interested in programming SysEx strings to get controller information to a midi module. Hey, but that's just me. Others may love digging into SysEx and esoteric controller functions.

Mixing: Have you ever hit the solo button in the arrange page of Logic? It takes 2 seconds for it to actually "solo"; same thing happens when you release the solo button - the delay drove me batty. Also, if you happen to have a track soloed in the arrange page and then switch to the audio mixer page, it WON'T show you that you have a track soloed!!! It has something to do with the arrange page being midi-oriented and the audio mixer sample-oriented (I think). Anyways, to me, as a musician, solo is solo and I don't expect it to act differently depending on which "screenset" I'm using. Other aspects of mixing are simple in PT like making groups of faders act as one or routing a group of faders to a subgroup fader. Automating plugin parameters is as easy as automating track volume in PT. Rearranging the track order is also simple in PT, but not in Logic - and the two main screens stay in sync so that a solo or mute shows up in both.

Logic's quantize features really do blow away the quantize features in PTLE. You can also easily split out a midi file by note or by midi channel (for imported midi drum parts, for instance). This will still take longer in PT.

Logic can import Apple Loops, Acid Files, and REX files directly with drag and drop. Na-da for PT - a big item on the wish list.

Midi FX in Logic: some are available as simple plugins. I wish PT had midi plugins. However, the arpeggiator in Logic isn't a plugin - you have to program it into the "environment".

Logic's built-in plugins are far more NUMEROUS than PTLE's. Are they that much better in quality? Probably if you only count the basic Digirack stuff. D-Verb is terrible unless you like trashy reverbs, but the BF and Joe Meek plugins are better sounding than anything stock with Logic. You'll probably want to get Waves or some other 3rd party plugin anyways. However, I think that DP has the better overall set of stock plugins than either Logic or PTLE. The Masterworks EQ and Compressors are very nice and it has really easy-to-use midi arpeggiator and midi echo plugins.

Stability - Check ANY of the Logic forums and see how often Logic Pro 7.01 crashes with a variety of hardware. Here, Digi wins hands down. If you don't have clients paying by the hour (or you have lots of time and patience), then regular crashes might be ok and you can deal with it.

Included softsynths - no comparison. This is probably the strongest argument for Logic. Nothing comes close to the $1000 worth of softsynths included. Most are quite nice.

Audio Editing - I agree. PTLE wins by a landslide.

Complex Midi and Controller Editing - Logic wins by a pretty strong margin.

Basic Midi Editing - I think PTLE has more easily-accessible basic midi functions. But that's just me.

Markers - AFAIK, Logic has nothing like the marker window where you can instantly set up and see all the markers in your song. Want to go to the 3rd chorus tag? No problem using markers in PT - a single click takes you there. It's scroll, scroll, scroll until you find the marker in Logic - and Logic Express doesn't include song position markers. You have to buy Logic Pro for that simple feature.

There ARE also frustrating limitations in PTLE vs full Protools such as no SMPTE timeline, no "Trim" automation, not being able to select non-contiguous regions, only 32 active tracks, surround mixing, etc. I believe all of those features are available in Logic Pro (not sure about non-contiguous regions).

I learned midi on SMPTE Track on an Atari, then switched to Cubase for five years, and then switched to Protools five years ago, and now am learning DP. My point is I learned all three of those systems pretty easily. I tried Logic and just could not adapt to the workflow. I found myself frustrated in trying to do simple things like duplicate an EQ or comp plugin on another track or simply rearrange the track order in the mixer. These are simple drag and drop functions in PT, whereas in Logic it's about 6-8 separate steps. The same thing for moving a plugin from insert A to insert B on a track - you just drag it in PT, but it's 6-8 steps in Logic. These are functions I use every day and they need to be a natural part of my workflow, not something I have to learn the steps and then memorize - or have to create a macro (and then remember which macro to use).

My point here is that neither application is the end-all do-it-all app. You have to look at how you work and what trade-offs you're willing to tolerate. Both are used by professionals, but studios that track a fair amount of live audio gravitate to Protools and those who are primarily midi composers, will probably be happier with Logic OR DP - IF they can get past the learning curve in Logic. I do think that DP has a workflow closer to PT than Logic does.

Certainly Logic wins without a contest if you count quantity of features and add-ins. If stability and amazing audio editing and mixing are more important, then PT will probably be a better route.

If you already are familiar with DP, or want something in-between, DP is a good hybrid between the two: easier to learn than Logic, and it has excellent audio editing, it sounds very good, and has scoring and midi features to rival Logic. It's also only $330 as a competitive upgrade.

[yavuzj]

"Basic RTAS soft synths are not really usable."

Huh? Look at my sig to see how many quality softsynths I use. I also just bought East West Symphony Silver Edition. It also runs great. There are very few plugins that are available in AU format that aren't ALSO available in RTAS format and there are a whole group of RTAS and/or TDM plugins that aren't available for AU.

For me, this is true.
I should have explained better though.
When I compose I use 10 or more Soft synths.
I can use 3-4 max with PT LE then system is not stable to handle more.
My CPU meter is around 70% then.
With Logic 6.4.3, I can even add 20 soft synths (or even more if i want to. Mostly EXS instances) and Logic does not care.

Yes, Logic has the "environment". At times it kind of looks like a mixer until you try to go past the 16 or 24 basic faders you have to set up at the beginning of a session. Try adding ONE new audio track to your 24 channel mixer - it's not easily expandable like the PT mixer: a HUGE interuption to your workflow. The environment is an object-oriented PROGRAMMING environment. I want to record and write music, not program

Just like I said before, 90% of the users leave it alone since it is hard.
However, Adding new Audio/MIDI/Bus track is as easy as hitting opt+shif+enter (equivalent of functions->track->Create with next instrument.).You just have to have enough audio tracks in your Autoload Song(Your default loading song).
I have 32Tracks+16Busses+16Auxes+16 AudioInstruments+4Masters+1MasterVolume already created in my Autoload.
They do not exist in the arrange though. There is only 1 each in the arrange. So if I want to add an Audio track, I click on the one I have in the arrange and hit opt+shif+enter. It is faster really. You just have to know Logic really well to work it fast that's all.

High level features are hard to learn though. You should prepare yourself if you want to go down that road.

Stability - Check ANY of the Logic forums and see how often Logic Pro 7.01 crashes with a variety of hardware. Here, Digi wins hands down. If you don't have clients paying by the hour (or you have lots of time and patience), then regular crashes might be ok and you can deal with it.

You are probably right. I use 6.4.3 abnd it's rock solid if you can get past the Digi's core audio driver issue when you are starting Logic. Changing buffer settings back and forth fixes that for me.

There are also some features of Logic you learn to do by just trying.
You mentioned rearrangin the track order in the mixer.
If you drag a track up and down in the Arrange, the order also changes in the Track mixer.
Simple drag and drop really.