Native Instrument Plugs vs Stock PT-10 Plugs

[PatriotsBiker]

Another question.

I have the Komplete Ultimate 8 package. Some studio effects are included with it such as the Solid series with EQ and compressors, the VC compressors and a convolution reverb called Reflektor.

Also available now for purchase are two different groups of studio plugs. Reverb Classics, Premium Tube Series (2 EQs and a comp).

I was wondering if any of you have used either or any groups of effects I've listed and have an opinion of them stacked up to the stock plugs in PT-10. Also, your impressions on how they stack up against other after-market plugs. I know better than to expect a $199 plug to be as good as most $500 plugs, but I don't really have the feel or the experience to know where the plugs I have stand against others. Things like good for hobbyists, but pros never use them, or something better or they are horrible ... or whatever?

Thanks

[nst7]

Most of the stock plugins in Protools are designed to be transparent and are not imitating any vintage hardware (with the exception of the BF76).

The various plugins you listed are the opposite, in that they are trying to emulate classic hardware, and the color that each one has. So at the very least, they will sound different, and be a nice alternate choice to the stock plugins.

It would probably help to learn about the original hardware that these emulate, and you might have a better idea of what their strong points are.

Generally speaking, most stock DAW's plugins are going to be fairly neutral and transparent, because the companies don't know what kind of music you'll be doing and they would be hesitant to put a certain color or flavor on the plugin that may not be appropriate (such as for classical or jazz, etc.). This is where the 3rd party plugins step in and provide those different options.

[PatriotsBiker]

Thanks, nst7. Looking up the old models makes really good sense and if nothing else, gives me a starting point to figure out what all I have.

[guitar012001]

Hey,
I just released a project entitled "13:13" that I replaced my "Pre Mix" and "Final Mix Bus" sub group TDM plugins which were McDSP M1, Waves C6, and TC Electronic Brickwall Limiter with Native Instruments Premium Tube Series, Passive Eq and Vari Mu, followed by Sonnox Limiter. I also used the Enhanced EQ on my Kick Drum bus. I love them!

Hear it here; www.reverbnation.com/lydiaseale

[rus5]

Hi,

Just a quick comment on your statement:

Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker

I know better than to expect a $199 plug to be as good as most $500 plugs, but ...

While probably generally true, there are some pretty notable exceptions. Try Massey plugins (http://www.masseyplugins.com). They're fairly simple but widely regarded as some of the very best, and they're actually FREE!! There are paid full versions too with extended functionality that are still ridiculously cheap. To scale that, they recently revised their compressor - a full rev. upgrade - and charged $3 dollars to upgrade (and you keep the earlier version as well). And again, they are widely regarded to be among the very best. Just sayin'....

Good Luck!

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker

Another question.

I have the Komplete Ultimate 8 package. Some studio effects are included with it such as the Solid series with EQ and compressors, the VC compressors and a convolution reverb called Reflektor.

Also available now for purchase are two different groups of studio plugs. Reverb Classics, Premium Tube Series (2 EQs and a comp).

I was wondering if any of you have used either or any groups of effects I've listed and have an opinion of them stacked up to the stock plugs in PT-10. Also, your impressions on how they stack up against other after-market plugs. I know better than to expect a $199 plug to be as good as most $500 plugs, but I don't really have the feel or the experience to know where the plugs I have stand against others. Things like good for hobbyists, but pros never use them, or something better or they are horrible ... or whatever?

Thanks

I have K8 regular, not ultimate so I had to purchase the Premium Tube Series and Vintage Compressors separately. The PTS is their version of Manley equipment (Massive Passive EQ, EQP1-A and Vari-Comp). Pretty decent plugs and the Massive Passive version does M-S processing which I don't think the Avid plugs do.

The VC series do some decent stuff as well. Loving the LA2 compressor on just about anything. Their 1176 emu takes just as much care to get decent sounds out of as a hardware unit but certainly a lot cheaper.

One thing to think about with the NI plugs is they have a wet/dry control for parallel compression which I don't find on many other plugs. Easier to work that way for me than setting up aux tracks.

The one downer is the Solid Series plugs (SSL emulations) and Reflektor as of now while nice are only available in Guitar Rig 5 or some of the Kontakt 5 instruments. K5 as you know you can't run external audio into in real time. But you can run real time audio into GR5 so you can use the SSL stuff and Reflektor on tracks. It'll just be weird to have instances of GR5 in tracks you wouldn't expect to have them (not to mention the cpu power it takes).

All the above being said there's one thing the stock Avid plugs have that none of the NI stuff has - a parametric eq. Other than that I hardly touch the Avid plugs.

Almost forgot - Softube does most of NI's effects plugs. Take that for what you will.

[PatriotsBiker]

Originally Posted by rus5

Hi,

Just a quick comment on your statement:



While probably generally true, there are some pretty notable exceptions. Try Massey plugins (http://www.masseyplugins.com). They're fairly simple but widely regarded as some of the very best, and they're actually FREE!! There are paid full versions too with extended functionality that are still ridiculously cheap. To scale that, they recently revised their compressor - a full rev. upgrade - and charged $3 dollars to upgrade (and you keep the earlier version as well). And again, they are widely regarded to be among the very best. Just sayin'....

Good Luck!

Indeed. I've used the Tape delay and found it most agreeable. I'll purchase that one for sure. Thanks for the reminder, as well. The compressor has been used in a tutorial series I watched once and was used quite a bit. I think I'll try it after I get a feel for the ones I have at my disposal already.

[PatriotsBiker]

Originally Posted by musicman691

I have K8 regular, not ultimate so I had to purchase the Premium Tube Series and Vintage Compressors separately. The PTS is their version of Manley equipment (Massive Passive EQ, EQP1-A and Vari-Comp). Pretty decent plugs and the Massive Passive version does M-S processing which I don't think the Avid plugs do.

The VC series do some decent stuff as well. Loving the LA2 compressor on just about anything. Their 1176 emu takes just as much care to get decent sounds out of as a hardware unit but certainly a lot cheaper.

One thing to think about with the NI plugs is they have a wet/dry control for parallel compression which I don't find on many other plugs. Easier to work that way for me than setting up aux tracks.

The one downer is the Solid Series plugs (SSL emulations) and Reflektor as of now while nice are only available in Guitar Rig 5 or some of the Kontakt 5 instruments. K5 as you know you can't run external audio into in real time. But you can run real time audio into GR5 so you can use the SSL stuff and Reflektor on tracks. It'll just be weird to have instances of GR5 in tracks you wouldn't expect to have them (not to mention the cpu power it takes).

All the above being said there's one thing the stock Avid plugs have that none of the NI stuff has - a parametric eq. Other than that I hardly touch the Avid plugs.

Almost forgot - Softube does most of NI's effects plugs. Take that for what you will.

Isn't the Solid Series EQ some sort of Parametric? Regardless, I've not gotten a good feel for it yet. It might be part of Ultimate as well. There might be a parametric in GR.

I've not had any problems using the stock pt-10 EQIII 7-band or 1-band EQs. I do wonder if my lack of experience is pulling the wool over my eyes or I otherwise don't know any better.

I do use the Transient Master sometimes to help me with depth and presence. I've gotten along quite well with the stock BF76 compressor, so little need to dive into NI's more than once or twice to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Speaking of Softtube, I do so enjoy their secret sauce knob that they call the Saturation Knob. The Free one from this past Autumn.

Thanks for your response. I'll look at those two plugs that you favorably mentioned a lot more than the cursort glance that I already have.

ps - I'm hoping that the end of the current Komplete and Komplete Ultimate sale marks a release of a next version and that those new plugs that didn't come with 8 are part of 9. That would be so cool!

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker

Isn't the Solid Series EQ some sort of Parametric? Regardless, I've not gotten a good feel for it yet. It might be part of Ultimate as well. There might be a parametric in GR.

I've not had any problems using the stock pt-10 EQIII 7-band or 1-band EQs. I do wonder if my lack of experience is pulling the wool over my eyes or I otherwise don't know any better.

I do use the Transient Master sometimes to help me with depth and presence. I've gotten along quite well with the stock BF76 compressor, so little need to dive into NI's more than once or twice to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Speaking of Softtube, I do so enjoy their secret sauce knob that they call the Saturation Knob. The Free one from this past Autumn.

Thanks for your response. I'll look at those two plugs that you favorably mentioned a lot more than the cursort glance that I already have.

ps - I'm hoping that the end of the current Komplete and Komplete Ultimate sale marks a release of a next version and that those new plugs that didn't come with 8 are part of 9. That would be so cool!

The Solid Series like I mentioned is part of the Komplete 8 Ultimate version of Guitar Rig 5 and that's why I don't have it. If it ever is offered separate from GR5 then I'll be buying it.

As to that sale - found out about the other day visiting the NI site looking to see if they had any new plugs out I don't have but want (like the aforementioned Solid Series as being able to run separate from GR5). You're having the same feeling I am that there's a new version of Komplete coming real soon. I wonder if they'll have any grace period for previous purchasers of Komplete 8 other than a price break? No one knows.