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  #11  
Old 12-17-1999, 11:29 AM
GPD GPD is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Sound Quality (continued)???

Both mixers can be found in the Support/Download/Pro Tools section.

Go to: http://www.digidesign.com/download/protools

Download the test files"Regular and Dithered 24-Bit Mixers"

Direct link:

http://download.digidesign.com/suppo.../test/mxrs.hqx
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  #12  
Old 12-17-1999, 04:18 PM
Mikey MTC Mikey MTC is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Sound Quality (continued)???

Blairl,

I'm not sure you've got it right. According to Dave Le Bolt, as long as there's a Mix card in the system, the dither is applied. So therefore, even if the Mixer"spills" over onto Vintage Farms, the benefits of the dither are still apparent across the board for the whole session.

I hope I've got this right but this is what I made of Dave's post near the top of this thread.

MIKEY
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  #13  
Old 12-17-1999, 05:17 PM
blairl blairl is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Sound Quality (continued)???

Mikey MTC,

My understanding is that what I said is true. I will verify and let you know.

I think the statement in question is the following:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Lastly, the dither always is present when a mixer is running on a MIX DSP chip, whether or not a mixer is running on a "vintage farm" or not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This means that a mixer that shows up on a MIX card will have dither on it even when the mixers on vintage farms don't have dither on them.

Again, this is my understanding.

[This message has been edited by blairl (edited 12-17-99).]
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  #14  
Old 12-20-1999, 03:02 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Sound Quality (continued)???

Hi all,

Here are two new versions of the mixers that we posted last week. The only difference is that they dither on "vintage" DSP Farms (with or without I/O declared) as well as MIX cards. The "no dither" version has the same DSP usage, but doesn't use the dither. The DSP usage on "vintage" DSP Farms is:

16x2 max mixer without I/O on "vintage" DSP Farm
13x2 max mixer with I/O on "vintage" DSP Farm

You can see that this is not very efficient, which is why we didn't do this to start with. But hopefully this will eliminate some confusion and make it easier for those of you interested in doing these tests, so that you don't have to pay attention to whether or not the mixer is running on a MIX or "vintage" DSP Farm.

The 2 new mixers for the test are at the same location as the previous versions:

ftp://ftp.digidesign.com/pub/support/misc/test/mxrs.hqx
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  #15  
Old 12-20-1999, 09:58 AM
blairl blairl is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Sound Quality (continued)???

OK, I looked into it and my assertion was correct about the Hi-Res mixer not working at all on vintage farms. However it looks like the previous post changes all of that.

[This message has been edited by blairl (edited 12-20-99).]
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  #16  
Old 12-20-1999, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Sound Quality (continued)???

The UBB software that the DUC runs on won't let you put hot links for ftp adresses, so you can get the mixers in one of the following ways:

1 - copy ftp://ftp.digidesign.com/pub/support/misc/test/mxrs.hqx and paste into your browser's address window.

2 - copy ftp://ftp.digidesign.com/pub/support/misc/test/mxrs.hqx and paste into your ftp client's address window. Anarchie or Gopher work great on the mac, WS FTP is one PC client. (remember not to expand the .hqx file until you have it on a mac, using Stuffit Expander v5 or higher)

3 - Click on Digidesign Software Downloads at the bottom of each DUC page, click on "Misc Info", click on "test", download "mxrs.hqx"


The best way that I've found to get the latest version of any mac software or mac program like those mentioned above is to do a search at the bottom of the Version Tracker homepage at http://www.versiontracker.com

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  #17  
Old 12-20-1999, 05:19 PM
Bernie Frantsits Bernie Frantsits is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Sound Quality (continued)???

Thank you Guys for directing Digi to develop the Hires Mixer A. Thank You Digi to listen to your user. I was watching this topic for a while (frustrated) Now Digi pleased my ears, I see the aperance of this mixer as an big step for the Natural SOUND on Protools! I love it!
My comparison was just on my 20-bit Adat Bridge Soundscape 810 AD/DA feeded by Dolby-S Analog Tape Mix from Trident 80B Stereo to 2CH grouped to Master and listened. I watched the Stereo and Bass Notes at Low Level(-40dB)with no loss or changed Dimension on my Genelec 1031A. It Sounds Great was my first impression!

It feels very Analog. Maybe we can have a choice of noise shape in prefs one day?
Now Prottols Mastering must be fun. Come On Guys lets say Digi a big Thanks!!

Merry Christmas

An Happy User!
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  #18  
Old 12-21-1999, 11:48 AM
blairl blairl is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Sound Quality (continued)???

OK everyone I'm anxious to hear about some listening test results. Let's all take a risk here and publish what we think.

So far from the posts I've read I don't think that people are really doing the "blindfold" tests. Go back to the original Pro Tools Sound Quality thread and read what Dave Lebolt wrote about setting up blindfold tests. Believe me there is a difference when your mind doesn't know which mixer is playing. I think that a lot of people are just deciding which mixer they like without doing any blindfold tests.

Here's my result: After many listening tests from different source material I think it is very, very difficult to tell any difference at all between the two mixers. However my listening tests slightly favor Mixer B. So there it is, I'm the first one to pick Mixer B. Mixer B seems to me to have a slightly "less harsh" sound than Mixer A. But that's my opinion. I've seen a few posts that favor Mixer A. What does everyone else think? I have only compared Mixer A to Mixer B and have not had a chance to compare with any other digital system or console. Has anyone had a chance to compare the mixers to dedicated mixers or other digital systems?

I'm especially interested to hear what Disco, Speer and Rail think about the mixers.
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  #19  
Old 12-21-1999, 03:13 PM
Jules Jules is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Sound Quality (continued)???

Hark! A herald!

News of this "test" has spread far and wide, many are taking a keen interest, incuding as usual, those poised to purchase one DAW or an other.
I hope it is in aid of progress rather than a brief interlude of amusement for digi staff by way of humiliation for those who dared to ask for sonic improvemnts.

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  #20  
Old 12-21-1999, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Sound Quality (continued)???

Jules,

I take issue with what you’re implying, as well as your frequent adversarial hostility on this board.

I think that initially Mike Rockwell, and currently Dave LeBolt have done a good job of communicating and working to address this heavily debated issue, and have presented an interesting opportunity to do a blind test that could produce some solid findings for those who find value in participating. You shouldn’t fear a blind comparison, and I can assure you that Digidesign has no desire to play games here. One mixer dithers, one does not. I encourage you to participate and let us know what you think.

Bob Langlie
Director of Customer Service
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