I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but....

[midnightrambler]

PT12HD is 599 USD a year yes? Isn't that around about the same price as keeping the Waves Mercury stuff up to date? I don't mind paying that sort of price for software that is guaranteed to work and to be up to date (**** and new features, obviously). I've never had a problem with Waves stuff working (bar the odd download falter when the server gets overloaded).

Though to be honest I'm not sure I've got any of these facts right, as the whole thing seems mired in so much confusion. I'm not even sure HD Native and HD-X are the same price.

[RamblerSound]

I don't think you should get flamed for speaking what you feel. I think Avid needs to know how the consumer base feels.

I guess my biggest problem with all of this is that there are some VERY key details that have not been explained while the new product is being rolled out. I'm feeling anxious about it at this point and I'm starting to get angry.

We only know what has been put out by avid. I own an HD Native system. If I go to the site there is only one place for me to click and that costs me $599. I'm not debating weather the $599 is fair for what you get. I feel like they have combined two different things into one price. Software upgrades PLUS 24/7 support. My argument is that not all HD machines require all the support and I should be able to choose to keep my software up to date and waive the support.

I own an HD machine that is not a billable machine. Paying $599 per year to keep it running is going to be a stretch. If this is the case I will need to consider doing something else and selling this rig to someone who thinks otherwise.

Thanks for chiming in. We need more HD voices to add to the chorus. We also need Avid to answer these very important questions usually before new products are launched but in this case they should speak up NOW.

Thank you,

Scott

[thewiz]

The thing that's different is that if you stop paying the fees at Waves, you can anytime later buy in again. I did, I have Waves JJP Classic and SSL bundle. I stopped paying waiting for AXX support. Then I just bought back in.. the Avid model is if you drop out you have to buy a new license full price to get back in, so you have no choice. But in Native 199$ isn't that bad, 599$ for HD is..

[adogg4629]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

PT12HD is 599 USD a year yes? Isn't that around about the same price as keeping the Waves Mercury stuff up to date? I don't mind paying that sort of price for software that is guaranteed to work and to be up to date (**** and new features, obviously). I've never had a problem with Waves stuff working (bar the odd download falter when the server gets overloaded).

Though to be honest I'm not sure I've got any of these facts right, as the whole thing seems mired in so much confusion. I'm not even sure HD Native and HD-X are the same price.

You make a very good point and I'm with you in spirit.

I would just raise concerns about the way this has come out. If Avid could be open, honest and clear about what they have been and are doing, much of the anger leveled towards them would be gone. Not wanting to go into depth with this here (there are numerous other threads on the DUC, Gearslutz, Pro Tools User Group, and realgear that cover all this in depth and I would suggest you look over a few of them), I would say that because of the fact that you yourself are confused about this upgrade scheme is proof enough that there is a real problem at Avid. At some point it starts to matter less and less about if the software works and more and more if the company that sells it is reputable. Avid (it seems) is going to great lengths to diminish its reputability.

AD

[mixboy bob]

WUP is $300 per year and you get coupons toward other products. And Waves always works great! Been a user for about 18 years.

Waves releases when their stuff works. Not before. AVID hasn't proven that they can deliver stable. If they could deliver that like Waves does, $599 is a no-brainer. But the reality is we will be PT beta testers for eternity.

I honestly don't mind the $599, but since they released without any of the points they used to sell 12, How do I know that the features will even be released before my year is up? They have given no timeline at all as to the rollout, and until they do, they will not see a penny from me. It could conceivably cost $599x2 years before all the features are actually implemented.

I love advancements and improvements, but prefer stability over features. That's just me. But there's a certain point at which I am no longer eager to jump on the train until I know that it's actually going to get me to the destination promised.

This whole thing is sad and disheartening. This doesn't stop my ability to make music one bit. I could be very happy using freezing the rig I have now for the next 5-6 years. How it DOES effect me is the lack of confidence it instills in someone who has spent close to 6 figures in 20 years on Pro Tools.

The trepidation it places in me should scare the crap out of AVID. But it doesn't, which is even scarier.

Back to mixing!

peace

Rob Burrell
aka mixboy

[mixboy bob]

Originally Posted by thewiz

The thing that's different is that if you stop paying the fees at Waves, you can anytime later buy in again. I did, I have Waves JJP Classic and SSL bundle. I stopped paying waiting for AXX support. Then I just bought back in.. the Avid model is if you drop out you have to buy a new license full price to get back in, so you have no choice. But in Native 199$ isn't that bad, 599$ for HD is..

This is a very BIG difference!! I did the same thing with the AAX waiting period, but they didn't bend me over a barrel when I wanted to get current.

Thanks for pointing that out, thewiz!!

Rob Burrell
aka mixboy

[propower]

WUP and the new AVID plan are really nothing alike IMO

Waves Mercury list price ~$7600 and commonly can be nought for ~1/2 that.

WUP for Mercury is $300 max per user (list price - go to dealers for better deals) and is only needed when a new rev of the WAVES product is needed. For the current V9 that has been 2 years right now for me. There are also incentive deals that credit your WUP towards new plugins. There are also usually upgrades from whatever you have to the next bundle for something like the WUP fee (I did that for many years). There is no penalty for letting WUP lapse and there is no additional charge for buying back in. Most folk only need to WUP every 2+ years - so - really nothing like the new AVID plan.

AVID plan
- punishes the user for not keeping the yearly payment and in the HD case this is so egregious that all we can think is that you have to buy a new HD system!
- AVID are so confused that although they tell HD folk there will be alternatives they refuse (even after launching the product) to tel us what they are
- Charge HD users 3X the native yearly cost just cause they can. Unlimited phone support - like anyone cares.

etc...

[RamblerSound]

This whole thing is sad and disheartening. This doesn't stop my ability to make music one bit. I could be very happy using freezing the rig I have now for the next 5-6 years. How it DOES effect me is the lack of confidence it instills in someone who has spent close to 6 figures in 20 years on Pro Tools.



I do agree to a point but freezing a computer is getting harder and harder to do. The new OS is always working in the background to stay current and safe. At the post studio I work at we kept PT 7.4 running on old G4's for a long time. Great TDM machines. It's just much harder to keep a machine away from the internet and keep it locked down. I don't think it is a reasonable way to work heading forward for my company.

I think it would be much easier for Avid to figure out it's stance on HD licenses.

Thanks for you input,

Scott

[ArKay99]

Originally Posted by thewiz

The thing that's different is that if you stop paying the fees at Waves, you can anytime later buy in again. I did, I have Waves JJP Classic and SSL bundle. I stopped paying waiting for AXX support. Then I just bought back in.. the Avid model is if you drop out you have to buy a new license full price to get back in, so you have no choice. But in Native 199$ isn't that bad, 599$ for HD is..

At this point if you run HD you can't just buy a new license. You have to buy a whole system with hardware...you know, they haven't worked out the issues yet.

[thewiz]

Amazing