Syncing Multiple HD Rigs Question

[Postman]

I still don't see EVE-319 or 321 as a solution for you, with 23.976/24 fps material. I only looked at the brochure (the manual is not online for easy download), so maybe my information is incomplete, but here's what I see. The SD outputs will be PAL or NTSC, which are 25fps and 29.97fps. So what happens when you work on a 23.976 or 24fps show? How can the SD outputs be frame-edge aligned with the 24fps HD outputs? One Pro Tools with SyncHD and tri-level, the other Pro Tools with bi-level and SyncIO. They cannot be frame-edge aligned.

Actually, there might be a way, if the ESE can output slo-PAL reference (PAL-type signal running at 24fps). It is not mentioned in the brochure and I don't recall off-hand if SyncIO will accept slo-PAL or not.

You're better off with Tri-level sync to all systems if you can.

[antonis]

Hey Postman, thanks for the insight.

23.976 rarely comes my way but 24f is a must. Just filled out the form with ESE to have the units manual emailed.

Mike Aiton, you're using the ESE so what's your take? Does the unit output 24 frames at the SD outs?

Will check the slow PAL option now.

If this solution cannot work Postman the it would have to do another Sync HD.

I am just in the process of finally adding surround, changing my mixing desk, converting the loft to a nicer Pro Tools suite, needs extra plugin licenses, hence I am trying to run the costs down as much as possible.

[antonis]

Yup, just had a quick look at the manual of the ESE. PAL locked at 25frames.

[antonis]

Hey again Postman,

Many thanks for your help with this. Spot on info, greatly appreciated.

My Decklink is a dual SDI out so indeed when working on 25fps I lock the SYNC I/O to the Video In and I am having no probs whatsoever.

It seems that I will be having a 23.976 situation coming my way so I am bringing this topic up again to clarify some bits.

You mentioned:

Originally Posted by Postman

You could send LTC from HD2/SyncHD rig and lock up the HD3/SyncIO rig exclusively to that, or for slightly quicker lockups use LTC for positional reference and word clock (from SyncHD) for speed reference. I don't really know how well that works as a satellite, but doing so does give excellent sync performance when chasing timecode... with slower lockup times than satellites are otherwise capable of.

Wouldn't be a viable solution, when working with 24/ 23.976fps, to lock the HD2 SYNC HD and Decklink card with Ref Sync and send AES to the HD3 SYNC I/O for wordclock locking and loopsync the 192Ds from there? That should solve common clocking, while rely for positional reference from the Satellite (?)

[Postman]

Seems like that should work. I'd test it thoroughly to be sure because I don't trust much.

[antonis]

Thanks for all your input you fountain of knowledge Postman!

[Frank Kruse]

That setup will ensure that your rigs don't drift but for frame-edge aligned sync you will need to clock all the rigs and put SYC HDs on all of them. Even Satellite will only maintain frame edge-aligned sync when you clock it with a SYNC HD.

So it depends how accurate you want to sync everything. But definitely worth a try.

frank.

[antonis]

I totally hear you Frank, thanks for the comment!

I am definitely looking for a used SYNC HD unit, and I have started posting in the Buy and Sell section of the DUC as well.

But for the time-being, it will have to be LTC and/ or rely on the Satellite timing to be able to work on this 23.976 doc freelance work that has come my way.

But many thanks to everybody contributing to this. I know have a clear understanding of what needs to be done and why!

[leopod]

Not sure if this reply was worth it's own thread, but I'll just bump this old one just in case, since my setup is similar to OP's.

Here is my question : 2 x Protools HDX + 1 Protools HD video satellite with AJA T-tap (no I/O process card on vidsat), both HDX are locked to tri-level sync via Sync HD and Evertz Sync Generator. If I wanted to genlock picture on the video satellite, would it be enough to feed tri-level sync to an AJA IO XT (instead of the T-Tap), or should I also aim at locking Protools as well on the vidsat? If so, It means I should be looking for acquisition of a Protools Native PCI card, a thunderbolt exp. chassis, and a Sync HD just for picture rolling, which seems a little overkill for that purpose.

Unfortunately, few years ago we decided to go on the vidsat route to offload video from our enormous PT sessions, but I'm thinking of bringing video back into the mix sessions, in light of the progress that has been made since then (64 bit, multi-core CPU handling, AVE progress, AJA proven reliability vs BM driver fuss etc.) and the fact that we can now hope for some kind of professional sync reliability. Any opinions on that matter?

[smurfyou]

Originally Posted by leopod

Not sure if this reply was worth it's own thread, but I'll just bump this old one just in case, since my setup is similar to OP's.

Here is my question : 2 x Protools HDX + 1 Protools HD video satellite with AJA T-tap (no I/O process card on vidsat), both HDX are locked to tri-level sync via Sync HD and Evertz Sync Generator. If I wanted to genlock picture on the video satellite, would it be enough to feed tri-level sync to an AJA IO XT (instead of the T-Tap), or should I also aim at locking Protools as well on the vidsat? If so, It means I should be looking for acquisition of a Protools Native PCI card, a thunderbolt exp. chassis, and a Sync HD just for picture rolling, which seems a little overkill for that purpose.

Unfortunately, few years ago we decided to go on the vidsat route to offload video from our enormous PT sessions, but I'm thinking of bringing video back into the mix sessions, in light of the progress that has been made since then (64 bit, multi-core CPU handling, AVE progress, AJA proven reliability vs BM driver fuss etc.) and the fact that we can now hope for some kind of professional sync reliability. Any opinions on that matter?

See Frank's reply a few posts up. As far as we know and until Avid changes it PT can only receive frame-edge sync when using the SyncHD. So with each playback you could be a quarter or half frame off in either direction.

Short answer is you need the SyncHD and something to plug it into like a Native card.

To your other question, PT 12.7 and up seem to work much better with video. Especially when you use an Aja output card and you have a recent and decent graphics card. If your sessions are heavy enough that you're already using 2 systems, you might want to keep using the Satellite. But it's easy enough to try it internal. It really doesn't seem to drag on resources much at all if you're using DNxHD codecs.