Machine Control Oddness...

[1150Post]

Hello all,

I have a couple of odd things happening with machine control and am hoping someone can help me out a tad.

First, ProTools is a new system with my company, having built two rooms to supplement our 4 AMS Neve/Logic Mixing suites. I, personally, am experienced with the AMS Audiofile, Sonic Solutions, Fairlight (somewhat), and the original Studer Dyaxis editing systems, so I'm no rookie to computer based editing systems and their unique quirks and have been doing Sound for Picture for a while.

Our first system is an HD3 with the AVOptionXL and HD Sync box driving 9 pin serial. It's beautiful. Picture is, for the first time in my career, a very simple afterthought. It is truly amazing. However, on layback to tape (HD Cam, DigiBeta, D2, BCSP), with Protools set to auto insert and a preroll of 120 frames (or more), the deck arms and executes the edit correctly, but the ProTools rig seems to start playback about 2-3 seconds late (past the in point for the edit), creating a 2 to 3 second hole of silence on the tape. It is consistent and repeatable. I've goofed with all of the prefs, and still can't seem to make it work correctly. A tad of a pain. What is the fix for this?

Second question.... On our second HD3 system, we're not using the AVOptionXL, and are instead using a Hard Disk Video Recorder. It, too, seems to work amazingly well except for one odd thing. When clcking and dragging (therby creating a selection), the Disk Recorder will follow when dragging backwards from where the selection started, but not forwards. It will follow forwards after having gone backwards, but not past the point where the selection was initially started. It will frame bump both ways, track while dragging fades, and pretty much work as normal except for this one glitch. This problem, too, is repeatable no matter which system the recorder is routed into, The Disk Recorder is a V-Mod 100. Is this normal?

Of course, I've referenced the docs for both of these problems, but find them severely lacking in the Machine Control Option area. I've also searched the DUC archives, but have not found this problem referenced. I'd appreciate any ideas that come to mind.

Thanks for the help. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[The Chinese]

Originally posted by 1150Post:
Hello all,

I have a couple of odd things happening with machine control and am hoping someone can help me out a tad.

First, ProTools is a new system with my company, having built two rooms to supplement our 4 AMS Neve/Logic Mixing suites. I, personally, am experienced with the AMS Audiofile, Sonic Solutions, Fairlight (somewhat), and the original Studer Dyaxis editing systems, so I'm no rookie to computer based editing systems and their unique quirks and have been doing Sound for Picture for a while.

Our first system is an HD3 with the AVOptionXL and HD Sync box driving 9 pin serial. It's beautiful. Picture is, for the first time in my career, a very simple afterthought. It is truly amazing. However, on layback to tape (HD Cam, DigiBeta, D2, BCSP), with Protools set to auto insert and a preroll of 120 frames (or more), the deck arms and executes the edit correctly, but the ProTools rig seems to start playback about 2-3 seconds late (past the in point for the edit), creating a 2 to 3 second hole of silence on the tape. It is consistent and repeatable. I've goofed with all of the prefs, and still can't seem to make it work correctly. A tad of a pain. What is the fix for this?

One question...are you using the Sync I/O for 9pin? Try a Kespan USB->serial adapter, they seem to work a bit better. Also, I have found that the Punch-in Function of MC has never been perfect. if you need perfect punches, try uploading the edit tothe deck...

Originally posted by 1150Post:

Second question.... On our second HD3 system, we're not using the AVOptionXL, and are instead using a Hard Disk Video Recorder. It, too, seems to work amazingly well except for one odd thing. When clcking and dragging (therby creating a selection), the Disk Recorder will follow when dragging backwards from where the selection started, but not forwards. It will follow forwards after having gone backwards, but not past the point where the selection was initially started. It will frame bump both ways, track while dragging fades, and pretty much work as normal except for this one glitch. This problem, too, is repeatable no matter which system the recorder is routed into, The Disk Recorder is a V-Mod 100. Is this normal?

Yes, this is normal-the Video scrubs backward becasue the insertion point is being constantly defined, whereas when moving forward the insertion point is static (Machine follows insertion selection.)

-Todd A.

[1150Post]

One question...are you using the Sync I/O for 9pin? Try a Keyspan USB->serial adapter, they seem to work a bit better. Also, I have found that the Punch-in Function of MC has never been perfect. if you need perfect punches, try uploading the edit tothe deck...

Yes... both rooms are using the Sync I/O for 9pin serial. And since I have a Keyspan unit at home from when I used to have a Palm Pilot, I'll give that a shot.

As for the upload to the deck, that's actually how I'm doing it. Only thing is, ProTools doesn't start actually playing the audio until 2-3 seconds after the deck goes into record. It's really quite odd.

In the lower left corner of the edit window, the sync status info will go from locking (in red), to locked and waiting for sync point (in green),. I assume that the selection start would be the sync point, however time and again it waits the same 2-3 seconds past the start of the selection to actually begin playing audio, even though the deck enters record/insert and starts the record with no audio playing.

Now, I would understand (somewhat) if I was running mismatched frame rates between the session and the master tape, as all of my work is at 1:00:00:00 time code, and 2+ seconds would be approx. the difference between 1 hour drop and non-drop. But that's not the case here.

It's maddeningly curious why the rig acts this way. Could it be a software bug? Anyone else having this issue?

Also, thanks for the info on the forwards / backwards shuttle / selection info. I appreciate it muchly. It does beg to question, though, if whether an external machine controller driving the deck, aka Lynx or Sony, with ProTools locked to TC would make for a smoother post process. Are most people using the machine control option for sound design, or are they driving the deck with a contoller? Anyone have thoughts?

Thanks again!

[1150Post]

Oky, had a little free time this morning to examine the situation more closely. Seems that my Setups>Peripherals>Synchronization - Minimum Sync Delay for the Sync I/O was set to the same amount as my preroll under the Machine Control tab. This meant that Pro Tools wouldn't even consider playing till that 150 frames ahad passed. I've since set it to 30 frames, and now the system starts playing audio as soon as it locks.

Now I only get an audible stutter or blip at the insert inpoint, although the outpoint is clean as a whistle, but perhaps that's another thread...

Thanks for all of the help.

[skeezer]

Just think. you even got to pay for that sad software

[The Chinese]

Originally posted by 1150Post:


Now I only get an audible stutter or blip at the insert inpoint, although the outpoint is clean as a whistle, but perhaps that's another thread...

Thanks for all of the help.

check your machine for
A)-Audio Edit Type. make sure it's not set to "Cut"
B)-Chekc to see if you have confidence mode enabled on your DBC. it should be set to Mode 2. If not you will experience a stutter on the In point as it switches playback heads.
C)-check the crossfade time-It can be set awfully wide....
Hope this helps-
Todd A.