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  #51  
Old 05-22-2018, 07:12 PM
Samanthas Dream Samanthas Dream is offline
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Default Re: No more HD Native PCIe card?

Quote:
Originally Posted by off the wall View Post
I think you're mis-reading this statement:

Got a Thunderbolt connection, but no PCIe slot? The Allegro USB-C PCIe card is ideal for use in any Thunderbolt 2 or Thunderbolt 3 to PCIe card expansion chassis, including Sonnet’s Echo Express™ or xMac™ Thunderbolt to PCI Express card expansion systems, offering full performance wherever you install it—now you can add dual USB-C ports in any current Sonnet Thunderbolt chassis.

What they are saying is that you can install their USB-C card in a Thunderbolt to PCIe external chassis.

The PCIe USB-C Sonnet card will not support Thunderbolt connected devices. Thunderbolt PCIe cards have never existed because Intel requires Thunderbolt to be native on the motherboard.

Could be.
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  #52  
Old 05-22-2018, 08:51 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: No more HD Native PCIe card?

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Originally Posted by Samanthas Dream View Post
Are you sure? After looking at his link, I did a search and there are lots of people connecting the UA Apollo Thunderbolt units to USB-C computers and from what they all said it works great.

If that’s accurate, why could MacPro towers with the PCIe card mentioned do it as well?
Absolutely not. Nobody can connect a UA Thunderbolt to a USB-C USB 3.x. doing that requires *Thunderbolt* on the USB-C port. This same confusion has come up on DUC several times before. It's a new version of the old confusion of people trying to connect Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 peripherals to mini display port connectors... same connector, wrong protocol.

USB-C connectors can be used for USB, display or Thunderbolt connections.
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  #53  
Old 05-22-2018, 08:59 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: No more HD Native PCIe card?

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Originally Posted by lancemcv View Post
There is also a USB C to thunderbolt adapter made by Apple now, really wondering if that would work with the native thunderbolt... most likely not, but maybe Avid is going to come out with a USB C Native box next, would make sense.
/snip/
The Apple USB-C adapter you are referring to is a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter. It absolutely works with the HD Native Thunderbolt adapter... but only if you have a Thunderbolt 3 connection to connect to in the first place.

Thunderbolt Native was kind of a easy step for Avid as they already had the Native PCIe card, and Thunderbolt pretty directly exposes PCIe, so it's much the same internally. It would be much more of a move to do USB 3 to Digilink. And the USB drivers can get a lot messier. I would hope Avid starts moving off Digilink before say going to USB 3, and I'm not convinced that would be a good move anyhow. I'd much rather see them come out with a new generation of PCIe cards and equivalent Thunderbolt 3 adapters (and sure throw Dante into the mix as well).

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 05-22-2018 at 09:21 PM.
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  #54  
Old 05-23-2018, 12:51 PM
Samanthas Dream Samanthas Dream is offline
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Default Re: No more HD Native PCIe card?

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Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
The Apple USB-C adapter you are referring to is a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter. It absolutely works with the HD Native Thunderbolt adapter... but only if you have a Thunderbolt 3 connection to connect to in the first place.

Thunderbolt Native was kind of a easy step for Avid as they already had the Native PCIe card, and Thunderbolt pretty directly exposes PCIe, so it's much the same internally. It would be much more of a move to do USB 3 to Digilink. And the USB drivers can get a lot messier. I would hope Avid starts moving off Digilink before say going to USB 3, and I'm not convinced that would be a good move anyhow. I'd much rather see them come out with a new generation of PCIe cards and equivalent Thunderbolt 3 adapters (and sure throw Dante into the mix as well).
Help me understand why plenty of people in the thread below seem to be able to connect thier Apollo’s using a USB-C connection.

https://uadforum.com/general-discuss...underbolt.html
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  #55  
Old 05-23-2018, 12:53 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default No more HD Native PCIe card?

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Originally Posted by Samanthas Dream View Post
Help me understand why plenty of people in the thread below seem to be able to connect thier Apollo’s using a USB-C connection.

https://uadforum.com/general-discuss...underbolt.html
Again, Because those USB-C connectors are running Thunderbolt 3. It’s that simple. This only works with Thunderbolt.

Again, a USB-C connector is a physical connector standard, you cannot talk about USB-C in meaningful ways without being clear what protocol(s) it supports. And reading that thread you linked to it’s clear in the context/what people are saying that those users have Thunderbolt 3 equipped computers and using Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapters. It would be clearer if people just said “Thunderbolt 3”, but still I am having trouble understanding why you are confused here.

MacBook (non-Pro) and many PCs with USB-C ports do not include Thunderbolt on their USB-C ports. PCs that do will say so in the specs.

This really has been flogged to death on DUC in the past.


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Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 05-23-2018 at 01:04 PM.
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  #56  
Old 05-23-2018, 12:57 PM
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Meads Meads is online now
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Default Re: No more HD Native PCIe card?

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Originally Posted by Samanthas Dream View Post
Help me understand why plenty of people in the thread below seem to be able to connect thier Apollo’s using a USB-C connection.

https://uadforum.com/general-discuss...underbolt.html
It has been stated several times now. USB-C is a connector that is able to carry thunderbolt. But this depends on the source. If your mainboard is equipped with thunderbolt it can use USB-C as a connection. But that doesn't mean that every USB-C port you see in the wild is a thunderbolt port. Far from it. Look at smartphones these days. They also have USB-C ports.
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  #57  
Old 05-23-2018, 02:45 PM
Samanthas Dream Samanthas Dream is offline
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Default Re: No more HD Native PCIe card?

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Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Again, Because those USB-C connectors are running Thunderbolt 3. It’s that simple. This only works with Thunderbolt.

Again, a USB-C connector is a physical connector standard, you cannot talk about USB-C in meaningful ways without being clear what protocol(s) it supports. And reading that thread you linked to it’s clear in the context/what people are saying that those users have Thunderbolt 3 equipped computers and using Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapters. It would be clearer if people just said “Thunderbolt 3”, but still I am having trouble understanding why you are confused here.

MacBook (non-Pro) and many PCs with USB-C ports do not include Thunderbolt on their USB-C ports. PCs that do will say so in the specs.

This really has been flogged to death on DUC in the past.


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Daryl I feel like I’m walking on eggshells around you. You come across as condescending to me.

You are obviously a knowledgeable IT person.

Maybe I’m an idiot.
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  #58  
Old 05-23-2018, 03:26 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default No more HD Native PCIe card?

Nobody here thinks you are an idiot for being confused about USB-C connectors, it is inherently confusing and vendors and the USB implementers forum did an awful job of avoiding this confusion. But I am having trouble understanding when the issue is explained to you you not getting it, it's not complex, it's just not obvious.

I just do not understand how you can be confused about the explanation. That is not picking on you, its a statement of fact, I just do not get it.

And had you linked to an article or thread where people were saying something wrong or contradictory then I could have understood why you might be confused--but you linked to a thread clearly talking about Thunderbolt 3 ports. I skimmed it, seemed clear but if there was a specific statement there that confused you then maybe you want to ask about that?

Instead of posting here and asking the same question multiple times then complaining when people try to help you could try googling these terms or looking up these technologies on Wikipedia--it covers all of them well. And if you have a specific detailed question then ask that.

It is not just USB-C, although that is the most complicated one by far. But USB-A, USB-B, USB-C, Micro-USB (strictly Micro USB-B), etc all refer to the *physical connector*. USB 1.0, USB 2.0, USB 3.0, USB 3.1, Thunderbolt 3, different video standards, etc. refer to data protocols running on those connectors.

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Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 05-23-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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  #59  
Old 06-17-2018, 09:30 AM
Sajin7 Sajin7 is offline
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Default Re: No more HD Native PCIe card?

What I find amazing is that I've googled a few announcements about this and no one explicitly just says Pro Tools Ultimate will not work with a PCIe Native system. Yes I have a cheese grater and was considering upgrading is this something I should do and wait until Avid makes it impossible for me to keep
my system (meaning new Avid hardware new computer when it comes out 2019? And refit all my peripherals?) I have to consider stopping rigt where I am and or moving to another software platform. So the question is will it run on my 5,1 machine with my current "native hardware."
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  #60  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:44 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: No more HD Native PCIe card?

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Originally Posted by Sajin7 View Post
no one explicitly just says Pro Tools Ultimate will not work with a PCIe Native system.
That's because it will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajin7 View Post
the question is will it run on my 5,1 machine with my current "native hardware."
yes.

Ultimate can run on anything regular Pro Tools does. It uses core audio.
If you want to use HDX hardware with Ultimate, then you have further restrictions.
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