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  #21  
Old 05-27-2015, 02:22 PM
Raoul23 Raoul23 is offline
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When you say clip mix buss won't your DA converters on the interface outputs be clipping if the clip indicators are coming up on the mix buss which should be the same, yeah. Sorry if this is dumb :)
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  #22  
Old 05-27-2015, 06:47 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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When you say clip mix buss won't your DA converters on the interface outputs be clipping if the clip indicators are coming up on the mix buss which should be the same, yeah. Sorry if this is dumb :)
Not dumb, but it IS possible to clip the mix bus without clipping D>A(learned the hard way). Also, different converters may have slightly different clip levels, and clip character. Oddly enough, I can hit the red on my headphone feeds(from HD IO outputs), but it still sounds fine in the phones
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  #23  
Old 05-28-2015, 09:46 AM
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Tom Graham Tom Graham is offline
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When you say clip mix buss won't your DA converters on the interface outputs be clipping if the clip indicators are coming up on the mix buss which should be the same, yeah. Sorry if this is dumb :)
Not dumb at all - this is complicated stuff for sure. As I understand it, on HD you could have 100's of tracks at full code signals with the faders cranked up to + 12 - summing and clipping the mix bus and trim the output down with a Master fader so it won't clip the DA of your converter. from the old TDM whitepaper:
"You can clip the “output” side of the mixer, but that’s what Master Faders are for—they allow you to trim your final output level to avoid clipping the DAC or 24-bit digital output when your mixed signals leave the Pro Tools mix environment. This is analogous to an analog console mix bus, where you trim the master bus with a master fader to avoid clipping the output circuitry in the console."

To be clear - Mick is saying that the bottleneck wasn't the mix bus as much as it was the plug-ins being 24 bit. Some developers made plug-ins that were double precision 48 bit to carry out the math farther - and then dither the output to 24 bit.

All that technical stuff aside - most mixers like Mick who switch to HDX or HD Native think it sounds better as an entire solution. Hence his last comment.

For me personally - I think the newer architecture is more freeing and forgiving by not having to be so technically careful on your gain staging. I remember the days of HD constantly checking for clips on plug-ins and tweaking inputs or outputs in the chain of plugs. It gives me more time to think about creative and mix decisions...
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  #24  
Old 05-28-2015, 09:59 AM
Raoul23 Raoul23 is offline
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Ok so if I understand this correctly at the moment I route all my tracks to an AUX sub mix which then goes to a master track. My master bus chain which is on my aux sub mix not the master fade can clip but if it's clipping on the master fader digi 192 output I just turn that fader down yep??
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  #25  
Old 05-28-2015, 10:20 AM
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Ok so if I understand this correctly at the moment I route all my tracks to an AUX sub mix which then goes to a master track. My master bus chain which is on my aux sub mix not the master fade can clip but if it's clipping on the master fader digi 192 output I just turn that fader down yep??
Right - you are on HD - so just monitor the plug-ins that you are processing on the aux 'master' chain for too much input or output for each one .

If your total output is too hot to the D/A - you can trim that Master Fader down and it won't clip anymore.
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