That "Commercial Sound"

[Munxcub]

when you said to normalize to -.2 db, can i get my mix there with +L1 on my master fader with the output ceiling set to -.2 and my master fader at 0.0? or should i set my +L1 and then crank the master fader?

[GW]

When I first saw this post, my mind wandered of exactly like Kickin'... I bought a Behringer device a while back ( - my worst buy ever!!!). It nowadays collects dust at work, since I didn't want it in my rack anymore... The Waves advice above sounds just fine to me - REQ, C4 and L1 is a killer combination... [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Munxcub]

how do you combine those 3 together? what do you try to achieve with the REQ, i've been using the C4 and +L1, but i'm still not too sure about the C4. I dont think I'm using it to its full potential...

[Chico]

Originally posted by Munxcub:
how do you combine those 3 together? what do you try to achieve with the REQ, i've been using the C4 and +L1, but i'm still not too sure about the C4. I dont think I'm using it to its full potential...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I use the REQ simply as a balancing "pre-amp". In other words, I adjust it for good stereo balance, then use it's output level controls to make sure I've giving the compressor a hot (as close to 0 as possible) input level.

Then I set the compressor for a moderate threshold (around -3 or so), reasonable attack and release so it doesn't pump, then again, set the compressor output levels to give the L1 a hot input signal to look at.

Then, I always set the Out Ceiling on the L1 to -.4. That's about as hot as you can get.

By the way, this how I master my radio imaging, which most Program Directors prefer to have louder than the commercials. So if you use this on your commercials, you can really hack off the PD's.

[Muzik77]

Using a $50 Behringer Composer to MASTER???? Take kickin's advice and get rid of it!!!

[Joe Egan]

Try this:

Get a shelving EQ and do as steep an attenuation as you can at 40 hz and below.

Then put your limiter or normalize. Unless you tame the lower end you won't get your recordings to be loud.

[Stephen Bond]

Well I've just been reading this thread and another one on mix compression and I can't believe some of the things I have been reading.
Firstly, don't let the 'gear snobs' put you off using your compressor over the mix. I personally used a MDX 2100 over my mixes for several albums and subsequently had these mastered in some of the best mastering houses in London (Metropolis, Abbey Road etc) without complaint. Also I have read about top ten songs going through humble compressors like the Alesis 3630 and having owned these too, I can say that the Composer is a lot more transparent than these.
Also, I can't get over how much advise is of the 'do it like this' as if there are rules to follow. The first rule of music making is that the end justifies the means and if the end result sounds good and people like it then who should criticise and tell you how things should be done and what kit to use or not use? The only thing to be said in the array of 'advise' is that at least it is thought provoking if not all constructive! The first thing to remember with kit is that good basic kit will sound great with the right expertise and top flight pro stuff can sound poor in the wrong hands. Lastly on mix compression, I would say that probably the majority of commercial mixes have at least a touch of compression or limiting over the mix as they are mixed and I have read the mix advise of several renouned mixers who all add mix compression.
OK here's how I used a Composer over the mix. Make sure that the Stereo Link is set.
1. Set the limiters at a level just below full scale (0dB) on your DAT or CDR. They are slightly progressive so allow a dB or two headroom.
2. Run the mix and with the compression threshold at max adjust the input until the limiter LEDs are working on most beats.
3. Start wih low ratios and the auto attack/release setting and bring down the threshold so that the compressor section starts to work a little. This should take some of the load of the limiters so that the limiting is weak and only occasional.

With a two or three dBs of compression and occasional peak limiting your mix should sound louder and the compession be inaudible. Feel free to go to manual mode (watch out for auto mode having too short a release time with deep bass, but shouldn't be a problem with most settings and mixes) and tweak in any way you feel necessary! Sometimes I would find the Composer smashing the mix and other times I'd have to use it very carefully so it depends much on the program material and desired effect.

Lastly, if you have ProTools then you may find it easier to use a compressor/limiter on the mix bus in the proram and have all the advantages of instant recall of the mix. Since getting ProTools, Waves L1+ has been over every mix although not everyone likes it you'll find many people using it. However, you can also get good results with the Digirack Compressor and Limiter although you'll have to adjust the gain carefully to achieve the same levels without clipping. Contrary to many gear snobs views, the Digirack stuff is pretty good, easy on your CPU and comes free with your software so don't be put off before you start!
Happy gain reduction and best regards,
Stephen Bond

[Kickin.da.speaker]

Here's how Mike Tulley from rec.audio.pro summarize the colors added by a compressor: [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

FMR RNC1773 - no color below threshold, little above
UREI LN1176 - very distinctive (and usually attractive) color always,
more above threshold
dbx 166 - very little color below threshold, crunchy above
Alesis 3630 - SHlT COLOR at all levels, worse above threshold

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

[Stephen Bond]

Well I would agree in general with the descriptions of the compressors listed. However, I would say that the 3630 sound is distinctly coloured below the threshold and not so above. I would cite Richard James (Aphex Twin) who said that no sound should be decribed as bad or good (was refering to manufacturers of digital recorders saying never allow digital clipping) and I'm sure he'd get some interting sounds from a 3630!
On the haircut analogy, I agree that most mastering engineers would prefer a less processed mix, or certainly mix options on these but there is a certain level ballpark that mixes will be at and most mastering engineers will expect the mix to be at a certain level. My first mixes on the Yamaha 02R were at a lower RMS level (probably due to adapting to the inbuilt compressors) and a mastering engineer at Abbey Road remarked how althought the mixes were good that they were a little low (even thought each song had peaks at near FS).
If you have better tools then I suggest to use them over them mix before the 3630 but as I said before who should preclude anyone using one to get their sound?

[Kickin.da.speaker]

Sure Stephen, but in that case, you can also use a guitar distortion pedal on your mix bus if you feel like it, and then run everything through a flanger and a chorus. Who knows, you might develop a style and become famous for that... [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

BTW, nothing wrong with that, I actually use a distortion plug-in on my whole mix on the bridge of one of my songs ( A Place ), but it's an effect, not a mastering tool.

The question was "in an attempt to boost the level to obtain commercial sound", not "in the goal of creating a personalized original effect".