New Licensing

[JFreak]

LE was introduced in PT5 (afaik). How many of us were using PT back then?

[nigelpry]

Originally Posted by noiseboyuk

No, that's my whole point - that scenario can't happen. That isn't something they can legally do by stealth. They might conceivably have an upgrade that required third party support to work, but you'd need to agree to download and install it. They can't magically do it without your consent, making your several thousand dollar license inoperative.

I'd rather we stuck to arguing over things that might happen, not things that cannot. The things on the table are bad enough, after all.

Guy,

Maybe I've missed something ...

As far as I know, Avid hasn't explained what the mechanism will be for separating out people entitled to a 'cool new feature' from those who are not. The current way of doing that is by an iLok licence exchange, and if it is to be foolproof, it is possible that this will still be the case into the future. Other possibilities exist, and there are pros and cons related to whatever method is chosen.

But, regardless of that, whether the licence is exchanged or not ... by the same arguements used for CPTK withdrawal ... your licence does not become worthless or inoperable, it just stops working with new versions. That is what explicitly WILL happen if you don't sign up to the support plan, or if you let ine lapse. You'll have perpetual access up to a specific version release, and not to any subsequent releases.

But ignoring licences altogether, an update could reintroduce hardware checking without affecting your ability to reinstall and continue using the previous version. You may, or may not have to exchange licenses as well, but a hardware check coded into PT itself, and a licence exchange to get access to a later version are not necessarily related.

No licence exchange would be compulsory per se, but it might be compulsory to get new features.

Do, why do you imagine what my worst case scenario suggsted cannot happen? From a licence perspective, CPTK was exactly that .... marketed as a Pro Tools version independent HD feature unlocker for vanilla users. Doesn't work for new releases but carries on working for older releases.

So, an update can be released that it worthless to you, but not worthless to everyone. There is no guarantee that what is supported at the start of a support plan, hardware wise, will continue to be supported throughout the life of the plan.

With people inevitably ending up with staggered support plan start/end dates, based on when they individually choose to sign up, SOMEBODY will be in the middle of their plan when the hardware they use ceases to be supported/stops working with a new release.

That's inevitable.

Hardware tying may be coming, or may be a myth, but it is not a scenario that "can't happen".

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by JFreak

LE was introduced in PT5 (afaik). How many of us were using PT back then?

I was, and before that.
Many of us "old folks" go back to Sound Tools/Sound Designer.
(still have the floppies somewhere)


kasper

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by YYR123

There is a history of stink related to the changing practices of avid/digi's plans

It's a trail of stink if we think about it

Yes a "trail" just follow the breadcrumbs ($$)


kasper

[noiseboyuk]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

Guy,

Maybe I've missed something ...

As far as I know, Avid hasn't explained what the mechanism will be for separating out people entitled to a 'cool new feature' from those who are not. The current way of doing that is by an iLok licence exchange, and if it is to be foolproof, it is possible that this will still be the case into the future. Other possibilities exist, and there are pros and cons related to whatever method is chosen.

But, regardless of that, whether the licence is exchanged or not ... by the same arguements used for CPTK withdrawal ... your licence does not become worthless or inoperable, it just stops working with new versions. That is what explicitly WILL happen if you don't sign up to the support plan, or if you let ine lapse. You'll have perpetual access up to a specific version release, and not to any subsequent releases.

But ignoring licences altogether, an update could reintroduce hardware checking without affecting your ability to reinstall and continue using the previous version. You may, or may not have to exchange licenses as well, but a hardware check coded into PT itself, and a licence exchange to get access to a later version are not necessarily related.

No licence exchange would be compulsory per se, but it might be compulsory to get new features.

Do, why do you imagine what my worst case scenario suggsted cannot happen? From a licence perspective, CPTK was exactly that .... marketed as a Pro Tools version independent HD feature unlocker for vanilla users. Doesn't work for new releases but carries on working for older releases.

So, an update can be released that it worthless to you, but not worthless to everyone. There is no guarantee that what is supported at the start of a support plan, hardware wise, will continue to be supported throughout the life of the plan.

With people inevitably ending up with staggered support plan start/end dates, based on when they individually choose to sign up, SOMEBODY will be in the middle of their plan when the hardware they use ceases to be supported/stops working with a new release.

That's inevitable.

Hardware tying may be coming, or may be a myth, but it is not a scenario that "can't happen".

Maybe it's me who is missing something - it looks to me you've just said exactly what I was saying! I'm not saying it's impossible that they change their model again and withdraw support for 3rd party hardware (however stupid that would be). I'm saying it's impossible for them to do this AUTOMATICALLY. You'd have to download and install it yourself. If they move to a totally new system that COULD do this, you'd need to install that system first. So the worst case is exactly what I originally said - you'll be locked out of future updates (and yes, potentially even if you've paid for them, though more on that in a minute). The worst case is NOT that the Avid bogeyman will come into your machine late one night and break it without your consent.

Originally Posted by Kasper

Not talking about "pushing" but simply an update/grade that can strip previous features.

It has already been done by Avid.
Previous to LE, all PT software was essentially the same. LE removed the timecode features that many relied upon and had previously paid for.

There was a big stink on the DUC when that happened, but must be long before your time.

Again, that's exactly what I am saying is the worst case. Things get conflated quickly round here - there was a suggestion that CPTK was better than HD with subs because it was "safer" from being tampered with. That isn't the case.

And also to remind folks who still don't believe me - that's not even the dark and scary rumour here put around by PTE (flatly denied as being true by Avid anyway) THIS is the rumour:

From information given to us by a source close to Avid, they are moving to a scenario where users will buy a support plan for their hardware and get the software upgrade included, but users would have to have relevant hardware as well.

This is not the current situation with the recently announced support plans, but watch this space, there may be a time coming soon when you’ll have two dongles for your Pro Tools HD software again, an iLok and Avid hardware.

So it's a totally different model to the one they've only just introduced. It can't happen automatically. They can't suddenly change from software support to hardware support overnight, having paid for it. It would need to be a widely flagged future change which you'd buy into or not.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by JFreak

LE was introduced in PT5 (afaik). How many of us were using PT back then?

I was

[Zarabozo]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

If someone buys the PT10+CPTK and never wants to upgrade, OK, December 2015 looks alright. But if the value in that combo is the $599 upgrade to 11HD, in my reading that ship is sailing 12/31/2014. What will the upgrade pricing be after that?

Why do you say that? Avid haven't given any indication that the CPTK to HD offer will end on December or on any near date, have they? And I don't think they'll simply take the offer down without a warning and lose $599 from a lot of people still waiting that would probably take the offer immediately if that warning was given.

[JFreak]

I myself would not count on CPTK deal being available after 2014

[noiseboyuk]

Originally Posted by JFreak

I myself would not count on CPTK deal being available after 2014

It's a horrible guessing game, isn't it? Personally I think it'll be into next year and they will give a warning, but it's a guess. It could disappear whenever they feel like it.

I give it 18 months, tops, then the upgrade path will be gone forever.

[JFreak]

I think the writing is on the wall already...