Eleven Rack + Mbox pro 3

[PatriotsBiker]

Thanks for the thoughts. What you guys say makes sense, then, when it comes to recording the GT-100 through the PT-11. There is one patch in mind that sounds great until it's tracked and played back. It sounds great out of the GT-100 via a few different headphones. It sounds great, albeit a touch different as it should, running in front of my Fender Twin. It sounds great running straight into the 11R line-ins and then out of both the monitors and then the headphones. It sounds like crap recorded and played back.

What I do not know is if it sounds good while monitored through PT, but not recorded. I would suspect that it should sound the same and that the signal path goes from stand alone to including PT, and that it's when it needs to go to PT that the conversion is happening to mess it up.

The Patch, fwiw, is one of those very heavy in effects going in and out of a clean pre-amp. One of those textured, spacey ones. I've noodled on it for hours.

The last version of the GT series, the 10, had the digital outs. I never worked well for me, as I recall. I remember thinking that I didn't care that it was not include in the 100. I do have USB, but everything I've ever done was done at 48k. The 100 only does 44.1k.

I would rather not take the GT out of the equation. I like the new one quite a bit. The pre-amps do no deserve the same reputation that the previous versions did. You're right, though, it would simplify things a great deal. I still have a hard time not wanting to have these normally clear tones at my disposal. Even the new acoustic sim is tolerable back in a mix, which is the first time I've ever said that about an acoustic sim.

I was under the impression that the 003 and the 11R was in the same neighborhood quality of component wise. I've probably out-grown some of the lower quality things without knowing it. A similar thing happened when I heard the 11R for the first time after a few years using the GT-6 and GT-10.

RE digital recognition of the 11R Rig's settings when recording, I think that's something PT does in some sort of definition file behind the scenes as it creates an audio file, and then maps the settings to the audio. The MBox 3 would have to pass that info along to PT if it was all connected together.

So, that $1,000 MBox 3 I see on Sweetwater - that's the one? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PTMboxPro/ Is there something in that class for less dough that you know of?

[nst7]

003 and 11 Rack are in the same neighborhood as each other, with the 11R just a little below. But both are dwarfed by the Mbox 3 and Mbox 3 Pro.

The $999 one is the Mbox Pro. Keep in mind that it comes with a full version of PT11, which is part of what you're paying for, and that's redundant since it appear you already have that.

You might decide to sell the activation code for the software to someone (it's easier to sell them the unused activation code that comes with the Mbox, than to transfer your existing Ilok license).

As for other things in this class, I'm not sure. Especially those that have digital ins/outs. The Focusrite Saffire or Scarlett series might be an option. I know people say they sound better than the 003 (for those who used to have that), but I don't know if they're as good as the Mbox 3 Pro.

Also, as I mentioned, my local guitar center has these on clearance, so you may be able to find a good deal. Or, also as I mentioned, if you can wait, we just might see new ones coming out.

[PatriotsBiker]

I can certainly wait. I was thinking of making my way over the our GC this weekend to see what they had in their clearance. I'm not against paying for yesterday's news if the discount is deep enough and the new isn't over the top loaded.

So it's the MBox 3 as well, not just the MBox 3 Pro that has the quality jump? I'll have to look that up as well. You're right, I certainly don't need another PT license.

edit: It just hit me. I have some latency using the line-ins on the 11R as well. PT does a decent job of fixing that all up when tracking, so it's really only an issue when not tracking. No latency running just the GT-100 and headphones, of course.

[nst7]

The Mbox 3 and Mbox Pro are virtually identical in converter and design. The only difference is that the Mbox Pro uses a more robust power supply (being that it's AC powered, not bus powered). This can usually make a difference in some nitty gritty specs like dynamic range and THD, etc., but should be so slight that it won't make a difference to most listeners.

So if you don't need the extra features of the Pro, the regular one might be the way to do, in that it still has Spidf available, and you're not paying for an extra Protools license (the regular Mbox comes with PT Express).


Regarding the line ins and latency, I'm not sure what you're referring to there. It shouldn't make a difference if you've set the Rig input to be the line ins. It should still have the same low latency benefits of going through the Eleven Rack's processing.

[PatriotsBiker]

re latency: I've not set the rig inputs to anything but guitar in. I only get Line In via Pro Tools and arming a track right now. I thought I was able to get this in stand alone mode. Perhaps it was with the PC on and everything was getting routed within the PC. I am having some very strange issues right now with the 11R, PC and PT right now that is way beyond this thread's scope. I'm willing to bet that it's affecting this somehow. It's not an issue during tracking, which is the important thing.

Good to know the converters are the same, as you said. I'll have to do some research to see if that power supply thing will be an issue to me or not.

It's only been three of us in there on one occasion, and never more. The small one should suffice.

[PatriotsBiker]

Originally Posted by nst7

Also, as I mentioned, my local guitar center has these on clearance, so you may be able to find a good deal. Or, also as I mentioned, if you can wait, we just might see new ones coming out.

I just saw that their sister (or parent?) company has that package for under $700 now. The smaller version is also heavily discounted. Your prophecy appears to be gaining steam.....

[nst7]

I saw that too. Plus other places like zzounds and American Musical don't even have the Pro in stock.

Guess we'll see soon.


Regarding the standalone mode, it's been a while, but I think to get the low latency processing with the line in, you need to set the line in as the rig input, and then bypass all the amps, cabs, and effects. I think then it should work with the same low latency as when you run the guitar through it. Same goes for if you want to use the mic preamp in that mode, again, you would set it as the rig input and bypass everything.

But I could be wrong.

[PatriotsBiker]

I believe you are right on that one. I've re-read the 11R manual sections regarding all of that....again. I need to set the Rig input to the line ins and set the main outs to pick up the rig at the rig input, which is pre-Rig processing.

I mentioned earlier that my PC was helping to induce some flakey behavior in and out of stand alone mode. I'll try this out 3 ways to check for latency and sound quality. I'll do PC Off, PC On, PT on input monitoring and PT tracking and resulting play-back. At some point in all of that I will be able to at least determine when the audio quality tanks out. I'm placing my bets on the PC having an unusual effect, but it would not surprise me if your theory about the conversions in the 11R being the culprit.

I'll also need to look at it inside of PT running the GT-100 through the Rig (everything off) and through the Line Inputs.

re product sales and timing, It's funny how one company can have it a full street price while he other is already in dump-it mode. (SW vs MF) GC's web site still has it at street, too, but from what you've said, at least one store has it discounted. Already seeing a few on eBay, too, New and used, and used with or without the PT license. Plenty of options.

[nst7]

There's a lot of times where the GC stores have a clearance price and GC online does not, or even vice versa. But seeing it in Musicians Friend (the sister company) is a good indicator. Sweetwater may be just a little behind.

[PatriotsBiker]

My experiments this morning lead to some clarity.

I did a lot of tests using the GT100 as audio source going in to the 11R line-in ports this morning. The patch used is really textured with lots of atmospheric overtones that go above and beyond standard issue delay. The results using both line-ins as source for an empty rig and variations of line-ins inside f Pro tools resulted in quite the variety of differences.

Surprisingly enough, the best result came when I forgot to hit my +4/-10db switch on the back of the 11R for a test within PT using line Ins all the way. the worst was the same method, but inst/line level switches matching. Go figure.

Using the line-in as source for a Rig was decent, but a little harsh and not quite so transparent. I'm pretty sure I had everything off in the rig.