Pro Tools MIDI Beat Clock sync problems

[mickglossop]

Hi - is anyone having problems with MIDI devices not syncing to Pro Tools MIDI Beat clock?

I'm using the PT Beat Clock Offset to correct for sync issues with various external MIDI devices e.g. Arturia Keystep Pro.

I've recorded the Pro Tools internal click to one audio track, and at the same time I'm recording a simple drum pulse triggered from the CV gate output of Keystep Pro. I then measure the lag between the recorded drum pulse and the recorded PT click track, with the timeline set to display samples, which then enter into the offset field.

The PT MIDI Beat Clock offset definitely has an effect on the sync, which is encouraging, but the results I'm experiencing are inconsistent. I'll set an offset and the result of the next recording experiment gives a result completely at odds with what one would expect from the new offset.

This activity just goes around in circles, i.e. set an offset, measure the lag, reset the offset, measure the new lag...

I'm actually attempting to correct for two different external MIDI devices with differing offsets. The second MIDI device is the Expert Sleepers FH-2 MIDI-to-CV converter.

I've noticed is that if I disable the beat clock send to the FH-2, the offset to the Keystep Pro produces a different result in its out-of-sync behaviour against the PT click.

By the way, this behaviour is entirely consistent, and easily repeatable. Also, I conducted this latter experiment with the MIDI input of the FH-2 un-plugged, so there's no external interaction going on between these two MIDI devices.

Is the MIDI beat clock in PT unstable?

This is driving me crazy, as you can imagine. Has anyone else experienced these problems?

[Robbie Felton]

I feel your pain brother. I have had this freaking issue for years. Used various external midi gear and same result: Syncing is off. Used midi beat clock with offset and without. Makes no difference. Ive calculated offset and it just acts in bizarre ways.. I see you use HD/Ultimate. Do you have an HDX card? I only use the vanilla version..no HD. Just tried in Logic and works no problem. Its something in PT. I swear though back when I was using PT 12 or maybe even PT 2018 it worked just fine... Things work fine if I program a sequence in PT and send it out to external device. This is something with Midi Beat Clock specifically. Anyhow, I wish someone would chime in with an answer.

Robbie

[mickglossop]

I'm using Pro Tools 2023.6.0 with Carbon & Carbon Pre interfaces, so yes, I have HD.

No problems at with Ableton Live generating MIDI clock - only in Pro Tools -

...frustrating...

[skylar_battles]

So far so good for me I think. I use a mioXM as a MIDI interface and did some testing a bit ago with a Roland JU-06A.

One thing to note is that by default while delay compensation for both MIDI timecode and notes and controllers are checked, beat clock is not.

Does checking that box in preferences make any difference? I will test when I am able to.

What do you mean you recorded the click? That sounds like it could be an issue because if you actually route it through a bus to record there could be very minor latency that eventually will screw everything up, since the click you are hearing won't relate at the sample tick level to the grid. Why not just commit a portion of the click track if you'd prefer to work with it printed as audio? You can also always just use a sampler a pick a sound and program the MIDI as well.

Make sure to never touch the global midi offset ever because it shifts the timing of the live click track! I tested just the other day on 2023.6

Also despite, global midi offset messing up the click track badly, per track midi offset seems so work fine now that I'm testing, but I know that isn't your issue.

[skylar_battles]

Checking back in on this as I did some testing with this Roland JU-06A

I used Pro Tools' MIDI Beat Clock to drive the sequencer on the instrument with both Delay compensation for the MIDI beat clock off (the default setting) and with that option ticked in preferences. Here is what I found:

With delay comp on or off for beat clock it sounded very in time to me along with the click. With delay compensation for the beat clock turned on, the first transient occurs later, so I believe it's working "correctly." It almost makes sense why it's off by default because MIDI is late in PT sometimes so maybe have delay comp off for beat clock by default is supposed to help push it earlier. Screenshots attached.

Overall to me it sounds in time against the click, but I suppose I'd have to test against a full song and see if the sequencer felt locked to tracks that have already been laid down.

[Robbie Felton]

Hello Skylar. Thanks for the update. I am surprised to hear that everything is in sync as you describe. Good news for you! On my end things are behaving very differently. I see you use HD/Ultimate. I use Pro Tools Studio (new version of that they used to call LE). I think thats what its called. I am on current 2023.xx Perhaps the consumer version exhibits different behavior? If you have the non HD/Ultimate version perhaps you could replicate experiment there to see what happens? Anyhow, appreciate the update.

Robbie

[Robbie Felton]

Hello! So to confirm, youre saying you have problems syncing external midi gear with PT when you are sending Midi Beat Clock out of PT to external midi gear (synths, drum machines) where PT is acting as master and external gear is slaved to PT?

If you see Skylars post below it seems his rig doesnt have any issues with it. Odd. I thought perhaps its cause he has HD and I have regular version BUT you have Ultimate/HD so this continues to be a very curious problem. Thanks for your update! Robbie

[skylar_battles]

I just have Ultimate so I can't test any thing else and also I use no Avid hardware so that is not part of the equation for me. I still doubt Avid Hardware systems adjust MIDI beat clock timing as I thought the emphasis was on eliminating latency in audio. I wouldn't expect Pro Tools Studio to exhibit different behavior for any reason.

[Vince B.]

Originally Posted by mickglossop

Is the MIDI beat clock in PT unstable?

Ummm.. Yes! it's a hell here. Inconsistent behavior and timing. And sometimes sending weird program changes to machines

[RobertDorn]

Hi! This is a bug and only AVID can fix it. The bug number is PT-263943 .
Pro Tools doesn't delay compensate properly for midi beat clock.

e.g. when you have midi events going on in a session with 0 samples of plugin delay everything works perfectly fine. Once the amount of samples to be automatically delay compensated adds up, audio is delay compensated properly but midi beat clock dependent events, whether its a plugin like LFO Tool, a virtual instrument arpeggiated patch or outboard gear synced to midi beat clock, completely fall apart regarding timing at that point.

Feel free to open a ticket about it, because the more tickets AVID customer support receives, the sooner they will prioritize a fix -hopefully- :)