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  #21  
Old 03-05-2012, 07:19 PM
mlemos mlemos is offline
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Default Re: Is Pro Tools dying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockridge View Post
When Avid jumped to 10 so fast, I could see trouble on the horizon.

Why would they move to another 32 bit version, and at the same time, tell us to hold on for 64 bit?

I don't buy their reasoning... 10 should have been 9.1
100 bucks for the native upgrade; 500 for dsp.

Leave the sexy number '10' for the 64 bit release!

Why would they ditch the 'brand' RTAS?
Why not call the new format RTAS 2 or RTAS 64?

And it should have been backwards compatible.
Have the new format incorporate the old with the new.
At least, have PT 11 load 32 bit RTAS along side.

Don't tell me there was no way... there is always a way!
Avid is squandering much of their goodwill with all these desperate moves.
+1...well said. i don't buy it either.

digidesign was kind of like finding a hot wife.
avid is like having a hot wife that cheats on you...what's the point.

regards,
marco
  #22  
Old 03-05-2012, 08:36 PM
Jeff D. Jeff D. is offline
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Default Re: Is Pro Tools dying?

Wow, there are a lot of very well thought out posts here. Including many from long time forum members.

For the most part we are a group that really loves this product. Avid management would be wise to read, or better, study this thread and understand where their future will come from.
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  #23  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:04 PM
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Emcha_audio Emcha_audio is offline
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Default Re: Is Pro Tools dying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by O.G. Killa View Post
Most don't understand the need for a lot of the "under the hood" functions since they don't understand common production workflows. Why does it matter if the DAW drops samples or not? Why does it matter if the daw can't run for 24 hours straight playing a project with 192 tracks and edits across all tracks every 3 seconds? What's the point of trim automation and auto join? And so on...
I'm not sure I can agree with this point, they are not the ones who think of new options for pro tools, that's still the dev team at avids. All they do is actually code what Avid wants, and has given them the mandate to code, part of it is still done at Avid R&D facilities.

What's the point of trim automation, this for example would not be something that one of the tech at global would say, hey! wouldn't that be great for pro tools, let's make it. They wouldn't code anything that is not on the blue prints that Avid dev team gave them, because they're not there to further develop the product, they're the people making the vision (blue prints and ideas of the dev team) come to fruition by coding it and trying (hopefully) to find solutions to the coding problems that this entails without introducing new problems.

I'm not saying one bit that I prefer this than having people at avid doing 100% of the work, just that you're attributing them some failure of new options that is not deserved, since it's not their job to think of new options of the software/hardware. They have a plan that is given to them by avid, and their paid to follow that plan and not deviate from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O.G. Killa View Post
Just look up Avid Technology on the glassdoor website. You'll see employees were predicting this outcome since 2008, when Greenfield came in. Everything has a "momentum" to it, including businesses. Business decisions made today will not see a final outcome/resolution for 3 to 5 years. That is why the CEO of any company needs to really focus on long term strategies because whatever decisions are made will hit the company 3 to 5 years down the road. It is very apparent from the reception of PT10 and HDX10 as well as the AVID stock price, Greenfield's directions for the past 4 years have been the wrong way to go.
That on the other hand, I completely agree with you.
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  #24  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:16 PM
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Post Re: Is Pro Tools dying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by O.G. Killa View Post
There would have been a way if Avid had kept the Digi development and engineering staff of 400~500 or so individuals that specialized in audio software and hardware/dsp development, some of whom had been with digidesign for 10~15 years and longer.

Instead Avid fired them all so Avid could move the fired employee's now unspent salaries over to Avid as a way to try and "cook" the books and compensate for the huge loses Avid division was (and still is) having.

Now with no development and engineering staff...
Your figures are not actually correct, and you are misleading people by posting them as facts. Avid Audio/Digi has never had a 400-500 person Engineering staff. We have also never had "no [internal] development and engineering staff" at any point in our history. Despite the challenges we (like many other companies) have faced, we still have a solid and credible team within Engineering as well as in Product Management, Support, etc., and yes this even still includes some long term "digi" vets. You absolutely have the right to disagree with our business decisions and practices if you want, but please do not make up 'facts' to try to make a point. Thank you.
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  #25  
Old 03-05-2012, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: Is Pro Tools dying?

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Originally Posted by Avid View Post
Your figures are not actually correct, and you are misleading people by posting them as facts. Avid Audio/Digi has never had a 400-500 person Engineering staff. We have also never had "no [internal] development and engineering staff" at any point in our history. Despite the challenges we (like many other companies) have faced, we still have a solid and credible team within Engineering as well as in Product Management, Support, etc., and yes this even still includes some long term "digi" vets. You absolutely have the right to disagree with our business decisions and practices if you want, but please do not make up 'facts' to try to make a point. Thank you.
Perhaps the real point is not what he is actually saying, but why he (and many other long time PT users) are saying it.

It is blatantly obvious that there are many disgruntled 'fans' in Avid-land at present. Whilst company representative input is much appreciated, IMHO it would have been time better spent addressing the 'why' in a broad sense as opposed to narrowing in on what appears to be a reaction to someone sticking a thorn in your side.

I accept your wanting to keep the record straight, keeping to facts. But your response goes nowhere near properly dealing with the wider issues being openly and often emotively expressed by those who are for the most part, Avid's most loyal customers.
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  #26  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:19 PM
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Post Re: Is Pro Tools dying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zedhed View Post
Perhaps the real point is not what he is actually saying, but why he (and many other long time PT users) are saying it.

It is blatantly obvious that there are many disgruntled 'fans' in Avid-land at present. Whilst company representative input is much appreciated, IMHO it would have been time better spent addressing the 'why' in a broad sense as opposed to narrowing in on what appears to be a reaction to someone sticking a thorn in your side.

I accept your wanting to keep the record straight, keeping to facts. But your response goes nowhere near properly dealing with the wider issues being openly and often emotively expressed by those who are for the most part, Avid's most loyal customers.
Fair enough, but if you have a concern shouldn't it be able to stand on its own without exaggerating? The point of that post seemed to be that product quality is suffering because all the work is now being done by unqualified people outside the organization, and the only people left have no passion for the products or the people that use them, and none of that is really true. We understand we have a lot more to do in the way of communication, and that includes increased participating on the DUC, more feedback on Ideascale, etc. We actually do appreciate the feedback we get, as well as how much many of you do to help each other. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
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  #27  
Old 03-06-2012, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Is Pro Tools dying?

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Originally Posted by Avid View Post
Fair enough, but if you have a concern shouldn't it be able to stand on its own without exaggerating? The point of that post seemed to be that product quality is suffering because all the work is now being done by unqualified people outside the organization, and the only people left have no passion for the products or the people that use them, and none of that is really true. We understand we have a lot more to do in the way of communication, and that includes increased participating on the DUC, more feedback on Ideascale, etc. We actually do appreciate the feedback we get, as well as how much many of you do to help each other. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Thanks for your response, it is appreciated.

I agree that exaggerations and non factual information is unproductive, but it is often indicative of how deep ones feelings are on the subject.

Personally I think this is a legitimate subject so I hope it continues with factual information however I think it would be unreasonable to expect it to carry on in a non emotional context.

And to be fair, considering the nature of the subject I can understand that applies to both sides of the debate.

BTW, I don't think Pro Tools is dead, and I hope it never will be because I love using it. PT4 was the first version I used and am now up to 9. I've decided to skip v10 since I will be needing to upgrade my hardware to use PT 64Bit. I believe developing a 64Bit platform offers a huge opportunity for Avid to get it right and restore our faith and its reputation.

I await patiently.
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  #28  
Old 03-06-2012, 12:04 AM
TimNielsen TimNielsen is offline
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Default Re: Is Pro Tools dying?

While it is true that Digi still has some amazing programmers and engineers left, support by some nice coding and features present in PT10, it's also clear that Avid HAS let go a large number of people. In a single press release we read of 200 people being let go. This after quite a few layoffs before. So I doubt 400 to 500 is THAT much of an exaggeration.

Not to mention, many of us here know of specific very talented people who were either let go, or decided to leave Avid and the current environment there.

It just be clearer that Avid, as a whole, I'd out of touch and alienating their user base left and right. But yes we know there are good people there still.

But Avids support has seemingly become atrocious. Whereas once they seemed quite active here, they rarely post now. Also, if Avid hadn't let go so many people, do you really expect a bug as nasty as has ever occurred in ProTools could have made it into release? A bug where a DAW stops playing audio randomly? Seriously?

Or in my own hell, with PT10 and my HD Native card, PLAGUED by 9024, 9026 CPU errors that have rendered my machine useless. Despite numerous posts here by myself and others, despite me KNOWING that Digi is aware of it, the DUC has received absolute silence on this issue.

How can these issues exist except in a company dangerously understaffed. When emails to support can take weeks to get responded too?

The actions of Avid, it's decisions just show to a lot of us how much trouble the company seems to be in.
  #29  
Old 03-06-2012, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Is Pro Tools dying?

Yawn....
How many of these topics have been posted over the years. Stop nagging and start working. Avid (MediaComposer & video) and Avid (Digidesign) are great tools and should be seen as such - there simply is no competition. I have been using Digidesign since Qsheet AV in the late '80's al the way through Sound Tools and Protools (from V1.01 to 9.03). When Avid took over I worried for a short while since Avid is not well supported in my country - I know because I also owned Media Composer since 2001. But the fact that AVID managed to stay alive in the face of FCP etc etc says a lot. It is tough times out there.
I am not going to upgrade to 10 now, simply because it does not make sense financially. But I will look forward to getting a stronger, faster system when I can afford it.
Protools has its quirks, but I have managed to make a living using it as my primary tool for more than twenty years - a few hickups along the way, but very very stable on v9.

If Protools were to die, I for one, would be in deep [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep].
Now get back to work
  #30  
Old 03-06-2012, 02:55 AM
houser houser is offline
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Default Re: Is Pro Tools dying?

Interesting stuff and also a rather painful read here and there.

Ah well, I don't write much here these days, but I'll say this:

Some of it reminds me a bit of the general rumormongering on the internet.
We get a sense of that we have access to information that we can make informed decisions on.
We speak as if we know things and then speculation starts from there and we are rather lost.
It is not a logically sound way of assessing things, and a tiresome one for those that go about it.
What goes on financially is one thing and I will not try to comment on that for the above reasons,
other than that it is a dog eat dog world and I don't tend to be impressed by that aspect of any company.

Pro Tools?
The actual software/hardware/environment still rocks, if you take the time to RTFM and study and yes, do some workarounds.
Apples and pears, but their is nothing quite like it out there for what I do and 10 is the best version of PT I personally have ever tried.
I really hope Avid finds a way to develop and sustain it.
fwiw, ymmv
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