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  #1  
Old 09-24-2013, 10:54 PM
propower propower is offline
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Default Recording with rhytmic delay plugin on HD Native

I am using an HDN system with a 2012 i7 mac mini. In order to keep the mini happy I am using 128 buffer on a 44.1kHz session. This is adding 7.4 ms of latency in the record/platback path.

With the tune I am working on the rhythm depends on a delay on the guitar to get the groove. When I use the delay in protools (about 300ms) I have a hard time locking to it. I am thinking this is because the initial delay I get from a hit on my guitar has the additional input latency where as the follow on repeats don't. I am recording an acoustic guitar so can't put it through a stomp box for monitoring.

Anyone ever have issues with this? Other solutions?
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  #2  
Old 09-25-2013, 12:44 AM
Jack Ruston UK Jack Ruston UK is offline
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Default Re: Recording with rhytmic delay plugin on HD Native

Well I'm afraid that's the limitation of native systems...If you can't reduce the buffer size then you have to tolerate the latency. Couple of possible workarounds....Try quickly printing the rough mix of the track and recording the part to that with all the source tracks turned off. That might get you to a buffer size that works for you. OR Try PT11 which reduces the buffer on record enabled tracks while leaving the others at whatever buffer they require.

Make sure that the compensate in and out delays are checked in the IO so that whatever latency you're hearing from the track itself is compensated for when the recording is placed on the timeline.

J
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  #3  
Old 09-25-2013, 07:23 AM
nst7 nst7 is offline
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Default Re: Recording with rhytmic delay plugin on HD Native

Are you using an external drive to record your audio to?

Also, how many tracks do you already have going when you are doing this?
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  #4  
Old 09-25-2013, 10:10 AM
propower propower is offline
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Default Re: Recording with rhytmic delay plugin on HD Native

Hey all,

1) Mini has two internal drives (system - audio) both SSDs
2) Sessions are tiny!! - here is a picture http://flickr.com/gp/42245057@N03/b5371n
3) Even with all plugs inactive - http://flickr.com/gp/42245057@N03/8Y8m47

This session is 96kHz - 64 buffer using all the latest 11.02 and a Metric Halo ULN8. When I hook up my OMNI and 16x16 w/TB I get the same result. This has been pretty much the story for 4 months. I even bought all the AVID hardware to solve this and it didn't.

At this point I am really wondering a) Is it the computer?? Is the Mini just not fast/powerful enough?? Would a 3.5GHz 2013 i7 imac solve this?

FWIW there is a statement in the 11.0.2 notes -

The Pro Tools System Usage window displays spikes in CPU usage (PTSW-182238)
On older, slower computers, Pro Tools may display spikes in CPU usage at low Hardware Buffer Size settings (such as 32 or 64 samples). To avoid this issue, increase the Hardware Buffer Size in the Playback Engine dialog (Setup > Playback Engine). You can also try setting the Default Through Instrument option to None in Pro Tools MIDI preferences (Setup > Preferences > MIDI).
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  #5  
Old 09-25-2013, 11:02 AM
nst7 nst7 is offline
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Default Re: Recording with rhytmic delay plugin on HD Native

You don't need anything new. Something is seriously messed up. You should be able to do way more than that, especially in PT11. I could do way more than that on a 2007 Dual Core Imac with PT8.

I have no idea what the problem might be, but this is not normal at all.
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  #6  
Old 09-25-2013, 12:03 PM
Jack Ruston UK Jack Ruston UK is offline
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Default Re: Recording with rhytmic delay plugin on HD Native

Yeah looking at that spec you should be able to run the lowest buffer no problem.

J
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2013, 01:37 PM
propower propower is offline
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Default Re: Recording with rhytmic delay plugin on HD Native

Revised post below
Thanks!
-Lee
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Last edited by propower; 09-26-2013 at 02:48 PM.
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  #8  
Old 09-26-2013, 02:44 PM
propower propower is offline
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Default Re: Recording with rhytmic delay plugin on HD Native

OK - a new day --- last reply was at the end of a long day

I flattened my mini - did a complete reinstall from ground up and loaded nothing but pro tools. Result is things are certainly a little better behaved for a pure PT HDN/Omni/16x16 system than with the Metric Halo ULN8 / PT11 system. For the same test session I still have spiky CPU stuff but now it goes between 40% and 60% mostly with an average total cpu hit (PT+OS) around 10%. (running mirrored monitors has a negative effect on performance!) --

Here is a picture to compare http://flickr.com/gp/42245057@N03/o2473x

Doing some tracking at lowest buffer and 96kHz is now a bit more doable though getting rid of the spikes would have me grinning more! I also broke out my test equipment to relook at Round trip latencies with and without Low Latency monitoring. Results:

Avid Omni + 16x16 Input 16x16 output Omni
96kHz I/O RT
64 samples ------1.80ms
128 ------------- 3.12ms
256 ------------- 5.8ms
512 ------------- 11.12ms
LLM ------------- 0.47ms

AVID OMNI - TB 44.1
32 samples ----- 3.35ms
64 samples ---- 4.80ms
128-------------- 7.68ms
256 ------------- 13.52ms
LLM ------------- 1.9ms

At 96kHz the LLM path is quite impressive! Since it is also easy to add a reverb to this I am getting a lot happier with HDN (was giving serious thought to HDX ).

I would still appreciate if any one runs lowest buffer recording on HDN (any computer) could post a picture of the System Usage window so I could see if my system still has some issue.

Thanks!
-Lee
__________________
2017 27" iMac 3.8GHz i5, 1TB SSD
Logic ProX, Studio One V4, PT2019.x Orion Studio 2017, Apogee Ensemble TB
Musician: http://www.ivanlee.net/
Design Engineer: http://www.propowerinc.com/resume.html

Last edited by propower; 09-26-2013 at 04:03 PM.
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