Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  ē  Community Terms of Use  ē  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  ē  Community Search  ē  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools 2019

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-26-2019, 05:17 PM
melodydetective melodydetective is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 62
Default Anyone using large orchestra templates?

Iím sequencing the score for a show in PT 2019.5. About 200 tracks total, about 16 of which are connections to VEPro.

Iím not even going to go into the instability of video in an app owned by a video company - thatís another post.

But what Iím encountering is inconsistent MIDI playback. Control changes seem to sometimes work and sometimes not. In particular, messages that I send through VEPro into Kontakt, which is using Mind Control to organize many instances of OT Berlin Strings. Donít know whoís folding - PT, Kontakt, Mind Control, Capsule... any thoughts from folks with larger templates welcome.

Please, as a courtesy: if you prefer Logic or Cubase thatís great, but I want to see about solving this with Pro Tools for various reasons.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-26-2019, 05:32 PM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 17,212
Default Re: Anyone using large orchestra templates?

Most of the time I get "huge" sessions to mix they have been arranged in Logic and the most sensible thing would be bouncing stems (strings, woods, brass, percs, etc) as audio.

The largest orchestra template I have ever seen is the one Spitfire is using.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-26-2019, 05:57 PM
massivekerry massivekerry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 80
Default Re: Anyone using large orchestra templates?

I do it sometimes. It can be pretty dicey. Are you using a separate machine, or running VEP on your main workstation? Is your problem with program changes, or just all CCs?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-26-2019, 06:03 PM
massivekerry massivekerry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 80
Default Re: Anyone using large orchestra templates?

I just looked up Mind Control. I haven't heard of it before. I thought you had mis-typed MIDI Control. I just use a Kontakt Instrument for each articulation, or use Program Changes or Key Switches (depending on the library) to switch the articulations.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-26-2019, 06:40 PM
akm2018 akm2018 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 4
Default Re: Anyone using large orchestra templates?

I run large orchestral templates in Pro Tools for scoring to picture. I mostly have Instrument tracks routed to VEPro, one track per patch, with MIDI going to VE and audio from the patch in VE routed back to it's corresponding instrument track (the same one the MIDI was sent from).

I personally don't have any issues with my setup, either with midi notes or controller data not being played back correctly. This makes me think that Mind Control might be the issue. Have you tried taking Mind Control out of the equation and seeing if you get the same or different results?
__________________
Mac Pro 5,1 (Master)
2 x 2.66GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
128GB RAM
OSX Sierra 10.12.6

Mac Pro 5,1 (Slave)
2 x 3.33GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
128GB RAM
OSX Sierra 10.12.6

Pro Tools 2018.1/3/4 (non-HD)
RME Fireface UCX
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-26-2019, 07:34 PM
melodydetective melodydetective is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 62
Default Re: Anyone using large orchestra templates?

Thanks for the replies, folks.

Iím thinking now it may be a combo of Using Capsule (which is a giant scripting monster) inside Mind Control. Berlin Strings are cool but I sure wish they just did UACC like Spitfire does - in Spitfire you can assign all of the articulations for a section - first violins, say - to a single MIDI channel, and a sound will not play unless itís seeing its particular cc message that enables it, but it will still respond to other CCís - and then when you send dynamics to them via CCís, all of the instruments get the dynamics messages, so if you switch articulations, rather than needing to see a dynamics controller after the switch, the articulation will already be there. If I have all articulations on different channels, first I will have a billion tracks, because Iím using almost every articulation in the library for each instrument - a max of about 65 for a section - and second, because ProTools doesnít do folders, I would have to record enable every track in a section that I used before I did a dynamics pass. So less than elegant. Thatís the benefit of Mind Control - load a massive bank of patches, assign them to change via CC or whatever, and you are almost as cool as Spitfire.

Why am I not using Spitfire? Just not as exciting sounding as Berlin Strings, and Berlin dovetails with the Metropolis Ark stuff too.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:54 AM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: England
Posts: 1,714
Default Re: Anyone using large orchestra templates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by melodydetective View Post
Iím sequencing the score for a show in PT 2019.5. About 200 tracks total, about 16 of which are connections to VEPro.

Iím not even going to go into the instability of video in an app owned by a video company - thatís another post.

But what Iím encountering is inconsistent MIDI playback. Control changes seem to sometimes work and sometimes not. In particular, messages that I send through VEPro into Kontakt, which is using Mind Control to organize many instances of OT Berlin Strings. Donít know whoís folding - PT, Kontakt, Mind Control, Capsule... any thoughts from folks with larger templates welcome.

Please, as a courtesy: if you prefer Logic or Cubase thatís great, but I want to see about solving this with Pro Tools for various reasons.
Iím using PT with VE Pro and a large template without issue. Itís super solid here so my inclination would be thereís an issue with Mind Control.

Have you looked into Kontakt Multi Scripts? Thereís one where you load instruments/articulations into slots then assign keyswitches, program changes or CC messages to switch between them. Not in the studio today so canít be more descriptive at the moment but it can work.
__________________
Dave Marsden
UK
Avid HDX1, PT12 HD, HD I/O 16x16, Avid S6 M10 24-5, 2013 12 Core Mac Pro. Robby The Robot meter bridge ornament.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:20 AM
melodydetective melodydetective is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 62
Default Re: Anyone using large orchestra templates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
Have you looked into Kontakt Multi Scripts? Thereís one where you load instruments/articulations into slots then assign keyswitches, program changes or CC messages to switch between them. Not in the studio today so canít be more descriptive at the moment but it can work.
Hi Dave -

Mind Control is a multi script, more or less - thatís what it does, except many conditions can be engaged, including legato playing styles, speed and so forth for switching... I think my issue may be that Kontakt really wants to have one Capsule (Berlin instrument) and not much more per instance. I was just wanting to avoid an insanely massive series of VEPro instances with fifty instances of Kontakt within. And I have just tried the same thing in Cubase with the same result - and it didnít happen when I used Mind Control to drive 8Dio Adagio before. I really, really wish Capsule worked more like the Spitfire stuff does - I would like to be able to use a script to not pass note data unless a cc was at a certain value, but to allow all ccís, so all of these Kontakt instances could chase the same dynamics.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:20 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Soprano State (NJ)
Posts: 16,763
Default Re: Anyone using large orchestra templates?

To the op:
Is your version of VEPro up to date?
VEPro 6 or 7?
Since you don't know exactly what's falling over maybe mention this in the VEPro forum and see what people there might know.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:01 AM
arche3's Avatar
arche3 arche3 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 871
Default Re: Anyone using large orchestra templates?

It's the way you are using kontact. You need to set up multiple instances inside vepro. I have run into the same issue.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Large VEP INB Templates freezing with PT 12.2 ronwasserman Pro Tools 12 0 09-03-2015 11:17 PM
Groove Templates NOT WORKING..?!- Where can you get the grove templates from ? Zee&Eli Tips & Tricks 16 12-22-2014 11:34 AM
Notation/Score editor unusable with large scoring templates dterry Pro Tools 10 25 04-03-2014 08:48 AM
Score view slow with large templates dterry Windows 0 12-08-2010 04:49 PM
Garritan Personal Orchestra Vs Symphonic Orchestra Re_Org General Discussion 0 08-02-2004 07:57 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:45 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com