Ideal surround workflow with PT9 & 002 but no surround speakers?

[EricWillhelm]

Hey there. As a newbie to the world of surround mixing, having just been suckered into the CPTK with PT9 as an upgrade from my ol' DV Toolkit.....I'm having a fun time trying to figure out the best workflow to use, considering I have a 002, which DOES have enough outputs to handle surround output, but I do NOT have enough speakers...yet. Still just a stereo setup. So...given this Neyrinck Soundcode Stereo plugin I have to work with, my MAIN question at this point is, what makes more sense for me to do...work in sessions with full surround I/O settings while monitoring off a separate surround bus feed with the Neyrinck on it? Or just work with sessions with stereo-only I/O settings, and of course the 5:1 bus to feed the Neyrinck?

Actually, I'm not even sure if that's the right thing to ask! In a nutshell, I'm wondering, "Okay, what's the best way to create a surround mix, while monitoring in stereo, and then output the surround mix, with a minimum of hassle to get from stereo monitor mode to surround output mode?

I'm going to guess this is a real bonehead question that'll have me slapping my head when someone points out the ridiculous ease of my solution. I'm sure it'll hit me too after a few more read-throughs of the surround chapter in the manual. Just thought I'd give a shout in here in the meantime.

Of course I probably make no sense. Yeah, reading this back again, I can TELL it' destined for head-scratches and no replies!

Thanks anyhoo,
Eric

[Newpostguy]

Really you should get yourself a proper surround monitoring set up.

What you can do in the time being, to learn, is the following:

Bus all of your mix stems to a final 5.1 bus and call it something like 5.1 mix chain or something.

Then create two 5.1 aux tracks and make the input on both tracks your 5.1 mix chain (the bus you just created and routed everything to). Name one track 5.1 mix stem and the other ST Foldown or something.

Insert the Neyrinck ST downmixer plug on the ST Foldown track and Mute either track as you want to monitor.. You can mute the 5.1 mix and then listen to your ST fold down and then when you want to output a 5.1 (Not advised without monitoring in 5.1) you can mute the dowmix aux and reroute the 5.1 mix to a record armed 5.1 audio track.

With all due respect there is much much more to this and this route is highly discouraged for obvious reasons.

[HD2]

There is no ideal workflow for mixing 5.1 without speaker. To Mix in 5.1 and deliver something you'll have no idea how it sounds, I would say that is the bone head thing to do. However here is one temporary cheap solution. Buy a cheap home theater surround system that is pro logic II compatible. Do as suggested with the Neyrinck Plugin and then send that stereo fold down signal to another set of outputs of the 002 that are then connected to the home theater system stereo dvd inputs and that should decode the signal back to 5.1
Then again I am not sure if that version of the Plugin is actually doing any encoding or whether it is just summing the 5.1 channels to stereo for monitoring purposes.

[EricWillhelm]

To both of you, DON'T WORRY. I'm not about to go charging anyone for surround services and go mixing in stereo. I'm just wanting to get the feel of the routing and new features etc in the time until I get extra speakers. I'll be doing simple stuff. You know, putting dialogue in the center channel. Music in the L/R, ambient and directional goodies in the surrounds...again, just to get the hang of the territory while I work toward the goal of knowing what I'm doing (and yes, WITH a full surround array). And thank you both for your input. Oh and yes, I DO have a surround system running on the ol' home theater setup, so I can at least check my results there while I await the ability to do so in the mixing stage.

P.S. - I believe this version of the Neyrinck plugin ONLY sums the 5:1 to stereo for monitoring purposes. No further encoding going on.

[mikevarela]

Newpostguys right...

For the purely inquisitive, put the downmixer on the 5.1 bus and monitor in stereo. This would mean mixing in 5.1 first. Although this can be a tempting endeavor, you'd actually be want to hear what you've created in 5.1, so this really doesn't solve the technical or creative problems. When you monitor in stereo, no amount of depth and panning in 5.1 will come off the same in a 2 cone system.

Also, the neyrinck plugin included with CPTK does NOT handle LtRt out of the box, it's an upgrade. So this voids the previous comment about doing so. You can purchase this upgrade (199.00 I think) and then work on a consumer system froma 5.1 to LtRt which gets decoded as LCRS (not true surround (in current terms), but Dolby surround).

Best and really only viable option is to get 3 more speakers. Make sure your center speaker is same model/make/size as the Left and Right. You can go with another model/manufacturer for the surrounds, but ideally a decent setup would be the 8" variety across the front and the 6" across the back - same maker.

[idris]

Originally Posted by Newpostguy

... there is much much more to this ...

This is a little OT, for which I am sorry, but I think it is relevant, so I hope it doesn't offend...

As someone who is just starting to play with 5.1 I've recently had a conversation with someone more experienced in the sound field. (Sorry, couldn't resist the pun.) One surround aspect they mentioned was (in the absence of true 5.1 SFX or a stereo to 5.1 plugin),the use of mono atmoses couted to the centre channel with the dialogue, as well as appropriately rousted stereo atmoses.

Any other hints, tips, tricks?