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  #1  
Old 09-01-2019, 07:56 AM
Digi_User. Digi_User. is offline
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Default Will there be an Avid S2

My Initial Excitement
Avid S1 and Pro Tools Dock combination as a possible replacement for my Artist Control is officially over
The time between the announcement and shipping dates has given me time to reflect on what I and users like me really need.

The Long Wait
I have been waiting for 10 years for solution for us artists that is comparable to the 003/Artist Control and I am still waiting.

The thought of:
  • Purchasing 2 overpriced iPads - can't we just have built in screens?
  • App Store updates
  • 2 separate power supplies - I want less cables not more
  • Two separate devices -
  • Apple and Avid integration
Leaves too many variables for things to go wrong, new technology we integrate into our workflow should make my life easier but I just can see how this is ultimately the right solution.

I was expecting to see an Avid S2, which would essentially be a Pro Tools Dock with 4 faders from the S1.
Don't get me wrong I love the idea adding this to my set up but I do not feel that this really offers professionals like me who also work from home good value for money.

Why iPads
Using two iPads just seems like overkill for me when I will only be using them with these devices so why not just have built in screens.
What happens when apple decided they want to change the connection port?
A whole product line is dead.

The Short Term
All of a sudden discontinued products like the Command 8 seem like a much more viable option.
I still believe it was one of the best products Digidesign and Avid ever made. Its rock solid built like a tank and has everything I need.

Just Get a Dock?
When shaping sound I like physical controls using an iPad to control faders is just not tactile enough so I cant just use a dock.
The angle of the screen make mixing on it very uncomfortable and is a strain on my wrists.
1 Physical fader is not enough

Going from a Pro Tools Dock to an S4 is not as seamless as just learning the shortcuts on a keyboard.

The Future?
I would hate to see someone else step into the market and take the functionality of some of the lesser brands and repackage them with the sleek stylish elegance or Avid and Apple product for a fraction of the price.
We have already seen what companies like Huawei are doing in the tech industry. Margins are being exposed as the declining cost of production is not being passed on to us customers.

This is not a rant this is just me asking for the Avid S2, please don't make us wait another 10 years...
__________________
Mac Pro 2019 (test unit), 2018 MBP 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB 2400 MHz DDR4,Radeon Pro 560X 4096 MB Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB - OSX 10.14.7, Sonnet Echo 11 Thunderbolt 3, Avid Artist Control, SPL SMC, HD Omni, UA Apollo X16, UAD Satellite Octo, NI Komplete Kontrol S49, NI Maschine MK3, Pro Tools Ultimate (19.6.0.370) Eucon 2019.7, Avalon VT-737SP, iZotope RX7, Waves Mercury, Sonnox, SoundToys 5.

Last edited by Digi_User.; 09-01-2019 at 04:17 PM. Reason: grammatical correction
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  #2  
Old 09-01-2019, 08:31 AM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Re: Will there be an Avid S2

Doesn’t the new PT Control app support Android now? If so, there’s no reason you have to use an iPad with the S1. You could just use a cheap Android tablet.

The dock is a different story as that was designed for an iPad, but the S1 etc. should do the job just fine with a cheap Android tablet.


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  #3  
Old 09-01-2019, 09:53 AM
reichman's Avatar
reichman reichman is offline
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Default Re: Will there be an Avid S2

I don't like the extra cable clutter either, but the benefit is that the system is modular. I often travel with just a Dock and leave the S3 behind. Sometimes just having an iPad with PT|Control is a huge help in a session. I've had Command 8s and 003s with blown power supplies, and the whole thing goes down.

You don't need a powerful, current generation iPad. Old ones work just fine. And the knobs on the Dock are great for tweaking plug-ins. The iPad on the Dock is mostly used for selecting what you are going to tweak, and then the knobs and fader are there for the actual work.

If you like the 003 or Command 8, you will find the Dock or Dock+S1 to be a big upgrade. The wheel on the 003 was mostly useless. On the Dock, it's constantly being used.
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  #4  
Old 09-01-2019, 11:15 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Will there be an Avid S2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digi_User. View Post
The thought of:
  • Purchasing 2 overpriced iPads - can't we just have built in screens?
  • Apple and Avid integration


Why iPads
Using two iPads just seems like overkill for me when I will only be using them with these devices so why not just have built in screens.
What happens when apple decided they want to change the connection port?
A whole product line is dead.
Sure you can have two displays integrated for +$1k each and watch them fall behind tech in a year. That seems smart /s
The "connection port" is a charging USB. That's it. It's for power. You don't seem to have researched these products. The connection is by ethernet/wifi. Not something to go away anytime soon. And going back to replaceable tablets, you can always keep marching forward with what is new verses being stuck with an in built display.

Not to mention, Android is supported in the coming version.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Digi_User. View Post
The Future?
I would hate to see someone else step into the market and take the functionality of some of the lesser brands and repackage them with the sleek stylish elegance or Avid and Apple product for a fraction of the price.
We have already seen what companies like Huawei are doing in the tech industry. Margins are being exposed as the declining cost of production is not being passed on to us customers.
Well, that is just a random rant. Eucon is wholly owned by Avid. No one else can develop hardware for Eucon and no one else can put hooks in Pro Tools to integrate hardware controllers. So this is baseless ranting.
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  #5  
Old 09-01-2019, 04:02 PM
Digi_User. Digi_User. is offline
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Default Re: Will there be an Avid S2

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
Sure you can have two displays integrated for +$1k each and watch them fall behind tech in a year. That seems smart /s
The "connection port" is a charging USB. That's it. It's for power. You don't seem to have researched these products. The connection is by ethernet/wifi. Not something to go away anytime soon. And going back to replaceable tablets, you can always keep marching forward with what is new verses being stuck with an in built display.

Not to mention, Android is supported in the coming version.



Well, that is just a random rant. Eucon is wholly owned by Avid. No one else can develop hardware for Eucon and no one else can put hooks in Pro Tools to integrate hardware controllers. So this is baseless ranting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
Sure you can have two displays integrated for +$1k each and watch them fall behind tech in a year. That seems smart /s
The "connection port" is a charging USB. That's it. It's for power. You don't seem to have researched these products. The connection is by ethernet/wifi. Not something to go away anytime soon. And going back to replaceable tablets, you can always keep marching forward with what is new verses being stuck with an in built display.

Not to mention, Android is supported in the coming version.

Well, that is just a random rant. Eucon is wholly owned by Avid. No one else can develop hardware for Eucon and no one else can put hooks in Pro Tools to integrate hardware controllers. So this is baseless ranting.
So you cant see that a Protools Dock with 4 faders (S2) - expandable by adding S1(s), would make more sense than keeping the current dock which does not;
* Suport Android devices

Then fine but realistically a built in screen would not increase the cost of an S2 than more than a few hundred dollars.

An Avid S2 for 1-1.2k with a built in screen and 4 faders would sell a whole lot more than a Dock for 995.

So what if you have to update every 2-4 years, it is the same for most kit.
The dock is not tactile enough for mixing unless you want RSI in your wrists and leaping fader curves from having the mixer at at such an angle.

1. The S1 and Dock do not connect to a computer via a single cable especially if one is an android tablet. When you get that setup working post a video of that working I'll wait. I guarantee you will spend many frustrated hours trying to figure out why your computer is trying to divide by 0.

2. Do we see Avid updating the screens for the S6 M40 or S6 M10 every year? No
Whats the production cost of an iPad? What is the margin of profit and how much would the production cost of a comparable capacitive touch screen running Avid OS (Eucon 2.0) and 1 app (Control app) vs an overpriced iPad running IOS cost? Also as commented above the Dock does not work with Android or newer iPads.

3. How is that a random rant?
Maybe you should look at how products are manufactured in other areas of technology by other companies as these innovative techniques are transferrable.

Avid bought Eucon remember the implementation of mapping software functions to hardware is not unique to Avid, granted they have the best protocol at the moment.
Eucon is mapping software plain and simple, there is nothing stopping another companies from developing another protocol that also carries control information for faders, knobs, displays etc in fact it is happening right now!

This is why innovation lags behind for some companies politics, arrogance, ignorance and greed - get with the times and be bold pioneers.
Why be at the whim of another tech giant who are let's face it a rival, if not in within all professional environments based on their software then at least financially.

Waste your money be my guest, and good luck plugging in adapters into adapters into adapters and daisy chaining your devices together and doing all manner of workarounds to get this to work seamlessly.
Then watch when someone else brings out the S2 first.
__________________
Mac Pro 2019 (test unit), 2018 MBP 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB 2400 MHz DDR4,Radeon Pro 560X 4096 MB Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB - OSX 10.14.7, Sonnet Echo 11 Thunderbolt 3, Avid Artist Control, SPL SMC, HD Omni, UA Apollo X16, UAD Satellite Octo, NI Komplete Kontrol S49, NI Maschine MK3, Pro Tools Ultimate (19.6.0.370) Eucon 2019.7, Avalon VT-737SP, iZotope RX7, Waves Mercury, Sonnox, SoundToys 5.

Last edited by Digi_User.; 09-01-2019 at 04:15 PM. Reason: The dock does support new iPads
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  #6  
Old 09-01-2019, 04:12 PM
Digi_User. Digi_User. is offline
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Default Re: Will there be an Avid S2

Quote:
Originally Posted by reichman View Post
I don't like the extra cable clutter either, but the benefit is that the system is modular. I often travel with just a Dock and leave the S3 behind. Sometimes just having an iPad with PT|Control is a huge help in a session. I've had Command 8s and 003s with blown power supplies, and the whole thing goes down.

You don't need a powerful, current generation iPad. Old ones work just fine. And the knobs on the Dock are great for tweaking plug-ins. The iPad on the Dock is mostly used for selecting what you are going to tweak, and then the knobs and fader are there for the actual work.

If you like the 003 or Command 8, you will find the Dock or Dock+S1 to be a big upgrade. The wheel on the 003 was mostly useless. On the Dock, it's constantly being used.
I agree with your comments for the most part.
Would you not prefer an Avid S2 though?
__________________
Mac Pro 2019 (test unit), 2018 MBP 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB 2400 MHz DDR4,Radeon Pro 560X 4096 MB Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB - OSX 10.14.7, Sonnet Echo 11 Thunderbolt 3, Avid Artist Control, SPL SMC, HD Omni, UA Apollo X16, UAD Satellite Octo, NI Komplete Kontrol S49, NI Maschine MK3, Pro Tools Ultimate (19.6.0.370) Eucon 2019.7, Avalon VT-737SP, iZotope RX7, Waves Mercury, Sonnox, SoundToys 5.
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  #7  
Old 09-01-2019, 04:20 PM
Digi_User. Digi_User. is offline
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Default Re: Will there be an Avid S2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardi View Post
Doesn’t the new PT Control app support Android now? If so, there’s no reason you have to use an iPad with the S1. You could just use a cheap Android tablet.

The dock is a different story as that was designed for an iPad, but the S1 etc. should do the job just fine with a cheap Android tablet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A uniform matching design would be ideal with two of the same brand of tablet. Trying to avoid...

__________________
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  #8  
Old 09-01-2019, 05:48 PM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Re: Will there be an Avid S2

Hahaha!!

At least the front two seats match each other. =P


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  #9  
Old 09-01-2019, 05:50 PM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Re: Will there be an Avid S2

A thought. Do you absolutely need the Dock? Could you just have the S1 plus a tablet?

You lose the jog wheel and transport, but you have knobs and faders on the S1 and aside from the jog wheel, you should be able to replicate the transport on the tablet.


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  #10  
Old 09-02-2019, 12:41 AM
Mark Ziebarth Mark Ziebarth is offline
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Default Re: Will there be an Avid S2

Quote:
Originally Posted by reichman View Post
I don't like the extra cable clutter either, but the benefit is that the system is modular. I often travel with just a Dock and leave the S3 behind. Sometimes just having an iPad with PT|Control is a huge help in a session. I've had Command 8s and 003s with blown power supplies, and the whole thing goes down.

You don't need a powerful, current generation iPad. Old ones work just fine. And the knobs on the Dock are great for tweaking plug-ins. The iPad on the Dock is mostly used for selecting what you are going to tweak, and then the knobs and fader are there for the actual work.

If you like the 003 or Command 8, you will find the Dock or Dock+S1 to be a big upgrade. The wheel on the 003 was mostly useless. On the Dock, it's constantly being used.
+1
At home I'm using Pro Tools with an iPad only and feel nearly as comfortable as in the studio with the dock. Pro Tools Control is a huge improvement to control sessions in my workflow.

Best

Mark
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