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  #1  
Old 05-22-2013, 01:58 PM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default All Artist Mix won't power on users...come on in.

Hello, first of all, this is NOT about trying to bash AVID customer support in ANY way. What this is about is trying to get symptoms and causes and a possible solution to this, what seems like, a common problem with these units. I recently had my second failure of this type in 3 months and have just recently received my unit back. I will begin by saying that AVID has been great in getting the problem fixed, the second time they even let me ship the unit back using thier account. I used to be a field service engineer for Neve in NYC and have extensive user-side experience in console far more complicated than an Artist Mix, however that doesn't mean I'm an expert, and the saying goes, a little knowledge can be dangerous. This is about trying to understand the problem from the users perspective, shed some light on it's cause via usage and/or installation, and to possibly give AVID a broader 'heads up' to the problem, even though I'm sure they are 'painfully' aware of it.

ref. example thread: Artist Mix won't power up.

It seems the cause of the problem in my case is a ferrite on the PCB right where the power enters the board. The first time it went, a piece cracked off it's entire length and there may have been some fracture somewhere I couldn't see. The second time it was split down the middle. On both occasions it appears this was the only component replaced. These are catastrophic failures most likely caused by a large current, or spike...whether it emanates from the PSU, or comes in on the ground could be the answer. I don't have schematics, so understanding the problem systemically is moot.

Here is a description of my usage, symptoms experienced, and attempts at a solution.

When I first installed my Artist Mix, I have it coupled to an Artist transport. I am using it with a Mac Pro 4.1 in an HD3 system. I also have the MP hooked to a small network on Ethernet port 1. I have a small router connected to Ethernet port 2 and I run it on it's own subnet, which is differnt from my other network. I'm using static addressing for the 2 units and the MAC. I found they have little to no issues communicating this way. I suppose the unique subnet is 'quieter' than the general network... I have a large UPS with line filtering powering the Mac, the small router connected to Ethernet port 2, the 2 Atrist boxes (Mix and Transport), and my 2 SyncMaster monitors. It's BIG ups 2400 watts and is WELL within it's operating parameters. I thought this was sufficient as far as 'protection', but 3 months into using the Mix, while between playbacks I heard a 'crack' from the unit, it went dark and wouldn't repower. Basically the same symptoms all seem to experieince with this failure. Sent it out for repair, but opened it before I did so, out of curiosity and found the damaged component. When I received it back I opened it and observed that it was the only component replaced, that I could see. Plugged it in and all went well until about 3 weeks ago. The same thing happened and I opened it to find the same issue. Buttoned it back up and called AVID and they were VERY cool about it and handled it in the way described above. When I got it back a few days ago, I looked at the inards and found the same component had indeed been replaced again. I'm not sure how many more times it will be able to be replaced...the solder balls and PCB burns are growing...

I decided to try and look into my installation as a possible cause of the issue, and noted one thing that was, I thought at the time it occurred (right before the second failure) peculiar. Both the Mix AND the Artist wouldn't power down with the power switches! This was AFTER I turned off my 192 I/O and the MAC. They would only power off if I removed the Ethernet cables from the Mix and Xport. The Mix came up the next day and wouldn't power down again that night. However, the next morning it wouldn't power on and the issue of the cracked ferrite was there. This means there is some residual current flow happening from somewhere. More on this later...

When I received the Mix back I decided to look at my hookup and try to visualize any problems. There are 2 things I noticed that might be a problem, both of the having to do with ground. The cables I'm using between the Mac to the router, and from the router to the Mix and xport have shielded connectors, however there is no connection through the cable, so a ground loop between the MAC-router-Mix isn't a problem. The Mix uses an external supply with a standard IEC AC plug with ground pin. The Transport and the router use wall warts with only 2 connections, power and neutral. The router has a shield tab on the back as does the UPS, so I connected a piece of 18 gauge wire at those points. One other thing...I use a footswitch to sometimes punch in and out. It is a standard momentary closure normally open footswitch.

It's too early to tell if adding the ground wire did anything. I'm wondering if those that have experienced this failure have observed anything as I did and if you are using and installing your stuff the same way. One thing to note, would be the type of Cat cables AVID would recommend. I believe mine are Cat5e, but should I be using straight Cat 5?

(the more on this later point) One thing that is different between the Mix and the transport, other than the IEC powered vs the wall wart supplies is that the Mix uses and internal relay to connect power. I'm wondering if there is some condition that causes the relay to not switch when power is removed and therefore cause some unexplained current to flow that kills the ferrite?

If we could compile a list of observed failures and perceived symptoms, some commonality may be established and help give AVID some insight. I know I don't want to keep going through this and the Mix is a great tool.
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2013, 09:02 AM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: All Artist Mix won't power on users...come on in.

Ok, guess it isn't as prevalent as I thought...
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  #3  
Old 05-31-2013, 11:18 PM
robertg robertg is offline
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Default Re: All Artist Mix won't power on users...come on in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKay99 View Post
Ok, guess it isn't as prevalent as I thought...
It's not, I think you have power problems that need sorting out.
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2013, 08:12 AM
jjnssn jjnssn is offline
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Default Re: All Artist Mix won't power on users...come on in.

ArKay... I have the exact symptoms that you've described. AVID support has been very helpful with this issue.

I am on my third unit (the third unit is the second unit refurbished). I never took mine apart. The first unit failed Sept 2012 (approx 6 months), I got a second unit Mar 2013 (approx 6 months), which was new. The third currently is working.

The first time I sent my unit back, support only wanted the unit returned. I kept the original power supply. The second time they asked for the power supply back. The second unit I used the power supply that came with the new unit. When the second unit went back after failure, they asked for the power supply, so I actually sent both power supplies back, packaging each separately hopefully providing their engineers something that could help isolate the root cause. Output from both power supplies was 15.2 ± 0.1 volts.

An observation I had was, near the time of failure, it seemed that when closing Pro Tools, the faders would "slam" to home rather than having a soft landing. I never heard a "pop", or wasn't present when it happened, maybe I mistook the "pop" for the faders sounding like they were slamming home. In both cases, I had powered down the unit when I was done working to come back the next day and the units would not power up. This is an observation, yet I can't say for certain that this is related. The third unit seemed to have a soft landing at first, now, the faders seem to "slam" home.

I have a transport as well that has had no issues, on the same isolate circuit/surge suppressor/ethernet switch.

The explanation I received from AVID Support was it was a bad "coil inductor" and "That is all the information I have on the repair. The issue you are experiencing with the coil inductors is currently being analyzed and has been passed along to engineering as it seems most units don't exhibit this failure.

And in the unlikely event that your unit does happen to fail again within the repair warranty period we'd be happy to offer you a free advanced replacement as a courtesy."

The "coil" failure in my opinion is a symptom of a different problem.

My concern is at the failure rate, I will be out of warranty if and when it fails again.


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W10 Pro / X99 / E5-1650v3 / 64GB ECC / nVidia P1000 / ASUS TB3 AIC
PT HDX1 / OMNI / HD IO 16x16 / 11R / Kontakt Kontrol S49 / Artist Transport and Mix / UAD OCTO Satellite, Apollo Twin MKII &, x8P Thunderbolt

[Late 2013 10.14 MacBook Pro]
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  #5  
Old 06-02-2013, 11:50 AM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: All Artist Mix won't power on users...come on in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertg View Post
It's not, I think you have power problems that need sorting out.
I appreciate the feedback, but I don't have power problems that need sorting out, otherwise the other 50 odd pieces of gear I've got running in my system should be popping all the time too, and if you look at the many other threads regarding this 'power-on' problem it certainly seems, empirically at least, that is at least fairly common. I posted a link to a thread in my op that references at least 4 that happened around the same time.
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  #6  
Old 06-02-2013, 12:04 PM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: All Artist Mix won't power on users...come on in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MADIrouting View Post
ArKay... I have the exact symptoms that you've described. AVID support has been very helpful with this issue.

I am on my third unit (the third unit is the second unit refurbished). I never took mine apart. The first unit failed Sept 2012 (approx 6 months), I got a second unit Mar 2013 (approx 6 months), which was new. The third currently is working.

The first time I sent my unit back, support only wanted the unit returned. I kept the original power supply. The second time they asked for the power supply back. The second unit I used the power supply that came with the new unit. When the second unit went back after failure, they asked for the power supply, so I actually sent both power supplies back, packaging each separately hopefully providing their engineers something that could help isolate the root cause. Output from both power supplies was 15.2 ± 0.1 volts.

An observation I had was, near the time of failure, it seemed that when closing Pro Tools, the faders would "slam" to home rather than having a soft landing. I never heard a "pop", or wasn't present when it happened, maybe I mistook the "pop" for the faders sounding like they were slamming home. In both cases, I had powered down the unit when I was done working to come back the next day and the units would not power up. This is an observation, yet I can't say for certain that this is related. The third unit seemed to have a soft landing at first, now, the faders seem to "slam" home.

I have a transport as well that has had no issues, on the same isolate circuit/surge suppressor/ethernet switch.

The explanation I received from AVID Support was it was a bad "coil inductor" and "That is all the information I have on the repair. The issue you are experiencing with the coil inductors is currently being analyzed and has been passed along to engineering as it seems most units don't exhibit this failure.

And in the unlikely event that your unit does happen to fail again within the repair warranty period we'd be happy to offer you a free advanced replacement as a courtesy."

The "coil" failure in my opinion is a symptom of a different problem.

My concern is at the failure rate, I will be out of warranty if and when it fails again.


Thanks for this feedback. While the failure I've been having, a ferrite at the entrance to the unit is popping, I'm wondering if it isn't the same thing, since 'coils and inductors' are wound ferrites. OR if it isn't, where is the coil inductor that is failing on your part in relation to the failing ferrite on my board?

Again, like you, I'm using my Mix with a Trasnport and they are both plugged into the same UPS (with filtering) along with a dedicated router and the Mac. All on the same UPS with filtering and properly grounded with 3rd pin as earth and confirmed with an outlet fault indicator plug AND a meter. I have also earthed the case of the router to the earth of the UPS. I also measure NO galvanic current between the chassis of the Mix, Transport, Router, Mac, video and audio Monitors, and 192 I/O. Hopefully earthing the router has solved my problem, although I measure no current with or without the earth wire connected.

It would be great to hear more from some of the other users experiencing this malady.
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  #7  
Old 06-06-2013, 05:54 AM
ellmanl ellmanl is offline
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Default Re: All Artist Mix won't power on users...come on in.

As of 3 days ago I have the same problem with my artist mix. For those of you who have had support from Avid, can you give me some advice on who to contact? I've called support with my ASC number and left a message, I've emailed TechSupport, and left a message with my a local authorized repair center. Not one has returned my inquiry. I have work to do an only the 4 faders on my artist control.....!
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2013, 09:58 PM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: All Artist Mix won't power on users...come on in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellmanl View Post
As of 3 days ago I have the same problem with my artist mix. For those of you who have had support from Avid, can you give me some advice on who to contact? I've called support with my ASC number and left a message, I've emailed TechSupport, and left a message with my a local authorized repair center. Not one has returned my inquiry. I have work to do an only the 4 faders on my artist control.....!
The number I found was on the website here somewhere. Here is the one I called. 1-650-731-6100.
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  #9  
Old 06-12-2013, 04:54 PM
Bluto Bluto is offline
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Default Re: All Artist Mix won't power on users...come on in.

I've had 2 Artist Mixes go bad with this problem. So far I've had them fixed under warranty, but it's expensive to ship it back to Avid. All I can tell you is one day it doesn't turn on. There were no signs of problems before the failure.
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  #10  
Old 06-12-2013, 08:33 PM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: All Artist Mix won't power on users...come on in.

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Originally Posted by Bluto View Post
I've had 2 Artist Mixes go bad with this problem. So far I've had them fixed under warranty, but it's expensive to ship it back to Avid. All I can tell you is one day it doesn't turn on. There were no signs of problems before the failure.
Thanks for the feedback.
This is what I remember about the first time mine failed.
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