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  #541  
Old 12-01-2010, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: Moving to Reaper?

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Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
...if I could cut open PT9, C5.5 and R4 and sew them together, I would actually be content. Yes, seriously. Between the 3, every feature I desire is present.
+1 billion!

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #542  
Old 12-02-2010, 12:36 AM
markblasco markblasco is offline
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Default Re: Moving to Reaper?

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Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
It is not possible to do what I describe. Track outputs are limited.. completely and absolutely, and designated as such in the I/O.. to Hardware. Track-to-Track routings require use of Send(s). Reaper does not have "Aux Tracks;" rather, a track can send and receive.
I guess I don't really understand why it matters if a track is of a different type (aux track vs. audio track), when it works in the exact same way. I setup a track called "reverb", and run sends from each of my other tracks to that track, which is exactly how I would use an aux track in ProTools. Can you please explain how you would use an aux track, and how that differs?

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Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
Please provide an example of routing PT is incapable of.
Well, currently I run a template for writing film music which has 8 instances of Kontakt, each running from 10-16 different instruments (about 100 instruments total). I have an additional track for each instrument (about 150, since I use additional sounds other than Kontakt) which sends midi to Kontakt, and then receives the audio back from Kontakt onto the same track. Then, for each section (strings, brass, FX, etc.), the tracks are within a folder, which allows me to bounce stems of each section simply by record enabling the section folder and hitting record. To get this to work within ProTools would require a very high end HD system, if it would work at all. LE just doesn't have the buss capabilities to route that many tracks.

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Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
Then, try to make a "TRUE" mono track in Reaper. Since the channel selector only does even numbered channels with "2" as the least number of channels, this is inherently impossible to do. It can be... *simulated* or *implied*, nothing more.
Again, this is an area where I am not how you use the software so that it would matter. If I put a mono source on a track in Reaper, it is running in mono. I can't think of a situation where that would be an issue, although it sounds like it is something which affects your workflow.


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Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
Uh... what? I can re-order tracks in the Mix window in nearly any manner I desire, and have it a separate order from the TCP/Edit window. In fact, utilizing Folders as Submix "parents," I can split these in the Mixer, placing the Folder (parent) far right by the Master.
I am not referring to the track order, but instead the order of the sends within each track. I use them in exactly the same way I would use aux sends, routing signal out to reverbs and other FX. The send controls are visible in the mix window similar to ProTools, but unfortunately in Reaper, you can't leave blank spaces or reorder the sends, so if you have other routing going on for a specific track, the send controls will not all be in the same place. This to me is one of the biggest flaws in Reaper for mixing.

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Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
Reaper does not have Auxes; any track can be any type, and more than one type. Some find this liberating; I find it fickle and chaotic, limiting (immediate) visual feedback.
I guess this is another area where me and you differ, because I love this about reaper. I don't have to worry about if I am using the right type of track for each part of my session, since all of the tracks can do everything. It used to bug the crap out of me every time I wanted to use a stereo reverb in ProTools, only to realize later that I set up the session with mono aux tracks, so that I had to delete the existing tracks and add new stereo tracks. In Reaper it doesn't matter, since every track can do whatever you want it to do.

I can understand that Reaper may not be the best tool for everyone, but for the most part, what impresses me so much about Reaper is that it is so customizable in ways that most programs aren't, with very minimal knowledge you can make it do almost anything. Heck, there is even a layout for Reaper which almost identically recreates the look and layout of ProTools.

Don't get me wrong, I think ProTools does what it does very very well, and I still use it from time to time (I'm about to start mixing an alt-folk record in ProTools this week), but to me it seems like ProTools has been the same thing for a decade. There have certainly been improvements in each version, but even with PT9, there are still limitations which don't need to be there which are present for the sole purpose of selling the higher end hardware. That is a fine business model, and it is obviously working, since people still consider ProTools to be the standard, but I find it very refreshing to use a program like Reaper where, for the most part, it is designed to do almost whatever you want. Sure, you may not know instinctively how to do it when you first start using the program, but that is no different than any other DAW. I found that it only took me about 2 weeks with Reaper before I was comfortable enough with it to no longer have to look into the manual to figure things out, and within a month I was using it without having to think twice about what I was doing. Now, I have custom keyboard commands to automate sequences of actions that I do regularly, I have a few templates setup for different types of sessions (one of which has over 200 tracks, all color coded and in folders to keep perfectly organized), and the only real problem I have is the fact that the 003 drivers for Win7 don't allow me to change buffer settings within Reaper without restarting the program afterwards.

I haven't ever had Reaper crash, or tell me my buffer was too large/small, or stop working after an update because I didn't pay my Waves update fee and my plugins are one version back. I have even done some recording on my laptop onto the internal 5400RPM system drive, and nowhere on the Reaper boards are people telling me that in order to even get the software to work I have to have 2 hard drives (which is what I see a lot of on the digi boards). To me, Reaper does more than ProTools does minus a very few things, all at a significantly lower price and with far fewer limitations. Heck, I can download it, install it, and start working on a random computer almost faster than I can login, find, and start downloading the newest version of ProTools (not to mention the huge wait time, since ProTools is such a large file).

Now, having said all of that, I will still most likely upgrade to PT9, since Avid has obviously listened to some of the complaints people have had over the years, and I am excited to see what PT10 will bring to the table now that the company seems to be heading in the right direction.
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  #543  
Old 12-02-2010, 12:45 AM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default Re: Moving to Reaper?

Ahhh...
Mono tracks.. if you place mono media on a track.. say, a mono sine wav.. it is actually being sent to BOTH channels. Using the "balance" control will simply determine how much is sent to each. To make it pseudo-mono, one would need to "re-wire it" under the hood, but even then the source track remains.. 2 channels, minimum. I am Autistic, so in my mind, this is similar to.. well, maybe like when a computer receives an illegal operation. If that computer could get frustrated, imagine hitting it with this EVERY SINGLE TIME the app is used. Sort of like when someone does the "I'm not touching you" game, over an dover, and over..

As for the Aux In thing..
I want to send the absolute output from a track to another track. I do not want to output the track to hardware. This is not possible in Reaper. While *they* suggest simply "disconnecting" the output of the track and utilizing a post fader (post pan) send.. it is still a send, and NOT an output. See above computer (poorly written) metaphor/analogy. I could actually deal with this if I could get proper panning and mono tracks.

And, as for the Sends thing... yes, as you describe and use it, it does suck. If I were doing your work in that manner, it would be an addition to my "illegal operation" bits of frustration, lol.
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  #544  
Old 12-02-2010, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Moving to Reaper?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
Ahhh...
Mono tracks.. if you place mono media on a track.. say, a mono sine wav.. it is actually being sent to BOTH channels.
...and stereo tracks also take up double the plug-in power in regards to CPU usage, unfortunately.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #545  
Old 12-02-2010, 01:25 AM
markblasco markblasco is offline
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Default Re: Moving to Reaper?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
Ahhh...
Mono tracks.. if you place mono media on a track.. say, a mono sine wav.. it is actually being sent to BOTH channels. Using the "balance" control will simply determine how much is sent to each. To make it pseudo-mono, one would need to "re-wire it" under the hood, but even then the source track remains.. 2 channels, minimum. I am Autistic, so in my mind, this is similar to.. well, maybe like when a computer receives an illegal operation. If that computer could get frustrated, imagine hitting it with this EVERY SINGLE TIME the app is used. Sort of like when someone does the "I'm not touching you" game, over an dover, and over..

As for the Aux In thing..
I want to send the absolute output from a track to another track. I do not want to output the track to hardware. This is not possible in Reaper. While *they* suggest simply "disconnecting" the output of the track and utilizing a post fader (post pan) send.. it is still a send, and NOT an output. See above computer (poorly written) metaphor/analogy. I could actually deal with this if I could get proper panning and mono tracks.

And, as for the Sends thing... yes, as you describe and use it, it does suck. If I were doing your work in that manner, it would be an addition to my "illegal operation" bits of frustration, lol.
OK, I still don't totally understand how the mono thing is different, since if you have a mono track in ProTools and you send it to the master output, it is still sending the signal to both the Left and Right master channel, and if you are talking about routing to other tracks, than I just don't understand why it matters. Not to say that there isn't a reason for it to matter, I just don't see it.

As for the sends, I again don't quite understand how it won't do what you want it to do. Every track by default sends to the master output, but by deselecting the parent track button in the I/O window, it no longer does that. If you make a send from that track to another track, it does exactly what you describe. The only difference I can see is how it is labeled. You don't see the "send" from the track to the master fader, but it is still there, and as I understand it, works exactly the same way as the sends assignments work.

Alternatively (and this probably doesn't work the way you want, or you would be using it) you can just make whatever track you want to send to a folder, and put your original track within that folder, which makes it send by default to that folder track and nowhere else.

Again, I don't mean to imply that you don't have valid points, I just don't see how Reaper is not doing what you want it to do already, or how the subtle differences between what you want and what it does have any real world implications.
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  #546  
Old 12-02-2010, 01:28 AM
markblasco markblasco is offline
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Default Re: Moving to Reaper?

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Originally Posted by Shan View Post
...and stereo tracks also take up double the plug-in power in regards to CPU usage, unfortunately.

Shane
Interesting, I didn't think of this. So, does this apply to all plugins, or just ones that process specifically in stereo? For example, if I am running Auto Tune on a mono track in ProTools, will running it in Reaper use twice the processing power? (understanding of course that RTAS and VST plugins run very differently)
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  #547  
Old 12-02-2010, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Moving to Reaper?

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Originally Posted by markblasco View Post
Interesting, I didn't think of this. So, does this apply to all plugins, or just ones that process specifically in stereo? For example, if I am running Auto Tune on a mono track in ProTools, will running it in Reaper use twice the processing power? (understanding of course that RTAS and VST plugins run very differently)
More info here.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #548  
Old 12-05-2010, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Moving to Reaper?

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Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
Epic Fail in too many areas for me. They listen to users? Yeah, about as much as Avid, Steinberg, etc. With many threads and a pretty detailed feature request in existence...
Non-contiguous area selection and edit groups are the two top feature requests for REAPER, and have been for quite some time. Unfortunately, these aren't in the R4 alpha at this time, which is a bit of a bummer.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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