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  #71  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:13 PM
amagras amagras is offline
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Default Re: Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
No. Summing. Crossfeed I don't know about in the case of the NLS - just that it doesn't some. I doubt though there's crossfeed involved.
Then I will need a more detailed explanation to understand what you are talking about Jack.
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  #72  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:17 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

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Then I will need a more detailed explanation to understand what you are talking about Jack.
Allow me to correct a mistyping - what I meant was that it just doesn't seem to do crossfeed. I have yet to see anything anywhere that it does crossfeed from channel to channel either.

All NLS does is saturation, distortion and pseudo VCA control.
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  #73  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:34 PM
amagras amagras is offline
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Default Re: Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Allow me to correct a mistyping - what I meant was that it just doesn't seem to do crossfeed. I have yet to see anything anywhere that it does crossfeed from channel to channel either.

All NLS does is saturation, distortion and pseudo VCA control.
Thanks, I'll do some research on that because NLS is what I most use with incredible results and I love it.
Will post when I have something worth sharing
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  #74  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:53 PM
Jeezer Jeezer is offline
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Default Re: Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

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Originally Posted by amagras View Post
Agree, that or use his actual ears
Oh the waves defence force is in again eh? Using ears is exactly what led me to these anti-waves conclusions. Me and many others. They make the worst sounding 'analog' emus around and are often harsh/thinning and overly digital sounding vs the best competition.

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Originally Posted by simon.a.billington View Post
Of course you have a right to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

You might want to do a little fact checking on what it does, because you’re a little off there.
LOL. You bought the waves hype, based on? the name "Non linear summing" yeah? I think YOU really need to go research exactly what console shaper in Studio One does vs a, as I said, tacked on 'fake effect' like waves NLS, Slate VCC, Satson and all others.

It is impossible (that is a fact btw) , impossible for a mere plug combo to even get close to doing what a DAW maker can do at the audio engine level (Mix FX). Yes plugs can communicate with each other, and they can fake stuff to give a bit of that vibe, but it's not really 'summing', not even close, and the effect is a poor imitation at best, waves version of console emus don't even sound great anyway.

Mix FX is built into the very core of the DAW with studio one, internal summing, where all the actual summing goes on between channels and busses and master bus. This is no tacked on effect. This isn't 'faking' the summing, it IS the summing. It's the same summing every other DAW normally does but in the case of Console Shaper/Studio One that 'summing engine' is made to mimic analog consoles, it even outdoes Mixbus (harrison) there. The non linear processing is bi-directional, up and downstream from the heart of the summing engine outwards.

When you stick NLS on in a channel and then on a bus and they 'interact' it's ENTIRELY after the summing has already taken place.

At least musicman gets it, one thing I rarely get wrong is FACTS. I know my ****, time for you to go learn too before speaking such ****.
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  #75  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:55 PM
Jeezer Jeezer is offline
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Default Re: Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

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Originally Posted by amagras View Post
Thanks, I'll do some research on that because NLS is what I most use with incredible results and I love it.
Will post when I have something worth sharing
Try something decent like mix fx and you'll go beyond 'incredible placebo' results. Trust me. NLS is poor, most of waves plugs are a joke that have only continued to live on past hype because ubiquitous in big studios back when they were the only decent game in town.

Literally anyone worth their salt has long left waves behind and gone elsewhere. NLS in particular was completely destroyed by a form of 'peer review' years ago weeks after release. Waves are GREAT at marketing and placebo/hype though, I'll give them that.

There are good console emus out there there, waves isn't even in the top tier, and none of them can touch what console shaper can do because they are ALL limited by the usual limits of plug-ins. A real console emu needs access to the audio engine.. like a real console. It's not rocket science.
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  #76  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:59 PM
Jeezer Jeezer is offline
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Default Re: Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

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Originally Posted by amagras View Post
Do you mean crossfeed?
Crosstalk is not summing, it's just one arftifact (and also part of c onsole shaper that is mostly recommended to run as low as possible anyway).

Summing is entirely different. NLS at best fakes some eq curve + some saturation algo + sends a bit of a channel between plugs to 'fake' crosstalk.

Once again that isn't 'summing', but their naming of NLS certainly fooled plenty of noobs it seems.

You guys lecturing me about 'facts' and 'good ears' and you sound like me 10 years ago when I believed all the crap I read (from waves and others).

Science wins, and console shaper works on science not branding, hype or fanboy hearsay.

But please do keep using waves ****ty console emus because your music will suffer, so less competition for me and other wise people who've moved on. :)
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  #77  
Old 08-20-2018, 03:11 PM
amagras amagras is offline
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Default Re: Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

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Originally Posted by Jeezer View Post
Oh the waves defence force is in again eh?.
The opposite can be said about you as well
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  #78  
Old 08-20-2018, 09:40 PM
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64GTOBOY 64GTOBOY is offline
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Default Re: Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

I have to admit I don't understand how any thing done in a DAW can be considered as audio summing. It isn't. It's math and algorithms. Summing is traditionally considered the process of mixing analog signals, as in a analog desk. ANY DAW "summing" is an algorithm process applied to a digital file that is a numerical representation of an analog signal. I can't see how it matters whether the algorithm is done by the host as opposed to a plugin-the algorithm either does a good job of creating a new file that simulates the analog summing process or it doesn't. Note SIMULATES. There is NO AUDIO in a DAW. There are only digital files that represent an analog signal. Thus NO analog summing is possible ITB. As for crosstalk, that is primarily something that was an inherent part of recording on magnetic tape, and was dealt with in various ways. I personally liked to use the fact of crosstalk to make the bass and kick tracks blend together by recording them on adjacent tracks, though I know many engineers avoided this on purpose. It is one of those creative decisions. Crosstalk ITB would have to be simulated as part of the algorithm and IMO it hasn't yet been successfully emulated(that I have heard) but I would like to see it done, as I miss being able to use it as an effect. As for NLS , Waves and any other DEV, I have to say if it does what I want it to do, to hell with it, I don't care whether its "cool" or if anybody else likes it.
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  #79  
Old 08-21-2018, 12:26 AM
simon.a.billington simon.a.billington is offline
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Default Re: Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

Analogue devices are just maths in physical form. That's hoe circuits are designed. Every component or series of components are designed to do something "mathematical" to a signal, whether it by as simple as "summing" or a more complex "algorithm"

It may not work with digital values, but it does works with voltages and amps instead, but its the same principle. Which is why its possible to make "emulations"
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  #80  
Old 08-21-2018, 12:35 AM
simon.a.billington simon.a.billington is offline
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Default Re: Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
But you do understand NLS doesn't actually do summing right?
Its impossible for a channel strip alone to sum, what is it summing with?!?

However, if you run your channels into the NLS Buss emulation, you get alot of the merits from summing your channels into the buss.

Either way, it doesn't make NLS any less useful. We could sit here and split hairs all day of what one thing does or doesn't do vs another, or we can just simple choose to use it and make music.

It's certainly not going to turn good mixes into bad mixes, unless its overused, but the same rule applies to any plugin or hardware device or the amount of bicarbonate soda you put into a cake. Hardly a Waves/NLS issue.
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