Two tips for dummies

[rdpar]

So yesterday I was trying to figure out how to use outboard gear with my Apollo x8p and pro tools. ((I did not figure it out so any help would be great)). I tried a number of methods suggested on youtube. One was to add an aux track and follow some other instructions which I don't remember now, So I added an aux track made the input the same mic input as the track I was going to record. After failing to make the connection between pro tools , apollo x8p and my hardware compressor, I dropped the whole idea. I noticed as I was trying to record my vocal track I had rediculous slap back delay effect. I racked my brain and tried all kinds of tricks to get rid of what I thought was latency. Turns out the freakin aux track with the same input as my vocal track was the cause of the problem. So tip#1 DO NOT HAVE AN AUX TRACK WITH THE SAME INPUT AS THE TRACK YOU ARE TRYING TO RECORD. Tip#2 Set your hardware buffer size low for recording and higher for mixing. The higher setting gives your cpu more room to process all your plugins. You're welcome. P.S. after eight years of self taught pro tools usage I just found out both of these tips yesterday. You're welcome :)

[JFreak]

You need to learn creating so called "hardware inserts". In short, create output/input pairs with matching I/O numbers (as in out 10 returns via in 10) and once you get this concept the setup is easy in the Setup Window / Hardware Inserts tab.

Then just choose that hardware insert in a plugin slot hardware section.

[rdpar]

Originally Posted by JFreak

You need to learn creating so called "hardware inserts". In short, create output/input pairs with matching I/O numbers (as in out 10 returns via in 10) and once you get this concept the setup is easy in the Setup Window / Hardware Inserts tab.

Then just choose that hardware insert in a plugin slot hardware section.

Thanks sounds too easy. Lol I’ll attempt that.

[albee1952]

No doubt you'll get lots of opinions on this, so please take mine as just that. Start by telling us what exact hardware you are wanting to use. I ask this because using hardware can be done in several ways, and some are easier than others. Unless the hardware in question is really special, then(my opinion) its maybe not worth the hassle. Now I love to record many things with a hardware compressor(and often do), but I simply use an external preamp, routed thru the compressor and into the interface(on a LINE input). This gets me the flavor and requires no special attention at all. If your hardware is a "budget" compressor, then I would skip it and use plugins(they sound as good or better and have none of the routing or latency issues you now have). Running external hardware as an insert requires you to go into the IO Setup>Insert tab and create paths that must use matching IO(IOW, output 5 tied to input 5, output 6 tied to input 6). This also requires the user to manually set the delay compensation time(which can be different from one hardware piece to another) and this can create enough latency to create a timing issue while tracking. One more option is to send audio out(any output) thru the hardware, bring it back on any input and record to its own audio track, then nudge it on the timeline so it matches the original audio(then disable the original audio in favor of the new processed audio file)

[wwittman]

Latency may vary between converters, but analogue hardware ITSELF does NOT have any ‘latency’. So it can’t vary.

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by wwittman

Latency may vary between converters, but analogue hardware ITSELF does NOT have any ‘latency’. So it can’t vary.

True, but it can still have phase changes

[rdpar]

I have done everything correctly and I still cannot get the signal to and from my compressor. Here’s something I thought of. I am using db25 to trs. My compressor is from around 1985 and may not accept trs, though I did try pulling the trs out a bit so that it was ts, and that still didn’t work. AAAAARRRGGG. Now it’s not a matter if it sounds better or not, it’s principle .

[JFreak]

Well what I would suggest is try bypassing the compressor altogether by connecting the out/in cables physically together (without compressor) so your "hardware insert" would only be DA/AD conversion and analog cables. If it passes signal, your PT setup is done.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by rdpar

I have done everything correctly and I still cannot get the signal to and from my compressor. Here’s something I thought of. I am using db25 to trs. My compressor is from around 1985 and may not accept trs, though I did try pulling the trs out a bit so that it was ts, and that still didn’t work. AAAAARRRGGG. Now it’s not a matter if it sounds better or not, it’s principle .

If it ain't working then you likely have not "done everything correctly". And if you are messing around with sends etc. trying to do hardware inserts you are trying the wrong way. Just get proper style hardware inserts to work. And as mentioned did you get loopback to work?

As Dave asked for ... what *exact* compressor. And how *exactly* is it connected... exactly what cables connected to exactly what ports/sockets? Is this a guitar pedal compressor? Then sure it's single sided. But what has 1980's got to do with it? I'm just not following this, any rack compressor is going to be balanced input and output. And guitar pedal compressors I'd just not be running as hardware inserts, put them in front of a DI or amp input... sure.

If you are running input and output DB-25s then you can often run straight though DB-25 ribbon cable between the DB-25 output and input, effectively looping back all I/O and use that to test your setup. (super thing to have in the tool bag, make them using just a pair of IDC (insulation displacement) DB-25 connectors and a piece of ribbon cable). Of if you have a patchbay setup then sure you can loopback one pair at a time... make sure you understand how your patch bay works and ideally check it's signal flow with a ohmmeter (with the interface disconnected).

And while learning to do this. Set up a test session. KISS. One mono audio track with the signal gen plugin on it. Absolutely nothing else. Get that working with a loopback cable/wire. If there are problems go probing the output with a multimeter to make sure the sine wave from the signal gen is on the output you think it should be (been multiple cases I can recall of that).

Almost every problem report about hardware inserts ends up being user mistakes in setting up the insert. I can't remember the last time it was not, no matter how loudly of confidently the user swore it could not be their fault. And you have to be very careful with the extra complexity of the Apollo interfaces and the Console.. for example making sure the console is not providing a path between those I/O pairs and that the mic input is not switched on for an insert return input you are trying to use on the DB-25 line input.

[rdpar]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

If it ain't working then you likely have not "done everything correctly". And if you are messing around with sends etc. trying to do hardware inserts you are trying the wrong way. Just get proper style hardware inserts to work. And as mentioned did you get loopback to work?

As Dave asked for ... what *exact* compressor. And how *exactly* is it connected... exactly what cables connected to exactly what ports/sockets? Is this a guitar pedal compressor? Then sure it's single sided. But what has 1980's got to do with it? I'm just not following this, any rack compressor is going to be balanced input and output. And guitar pedal compressors I'd just not be running as hardware inserts, put them in front of a DI or amp input... sure.

If you are running input and output DB-25s then you can often run straight though DB-25 ribbon cable between the DB-25 output and input, effectively looping back all I/O and use that to test your setup. (super thing to have in the tool bag, make them using just a pair of IDC (insulation displacement) DB-25 connectors and a piece of ribbon cable). Of if you have a patchbay setup then sure you can loopback one pair at a time... make sure you understand how your patch bay works and ideally check it's signal flow with a ohmmeter (with the interface disconnected).

And while learning to do this. Set up a test session. KISS. One mono audio track with the signal gen plugin on it. Absolutely nothing else. Get that working with a loopback cable/wire. If there are problems go probing the output with a multimeter to make sure the sine wave from the signal gen is on the output you think it should be (been multiple cases I can recall of that).

Almost every problem report about hardware inserts ends up being user mistakes in setting up the insert. I can't remember the last time it was not, no matter how loudly of confidently the user swore it could not be their fault. And you have to be very careful with the extra complexity of the Apollo interfaces and the Console.. for example making sure the console is not providing a path between those I/O pairs and that the mic input is not switched on for an insert return input you are trying to use on the DB-25 line input.

HA HA HA HA HA , I'm ready for a rubber room. It should not be rocket science. out output 5 in input 5 insert 5. And yes I tried the loop back and nothing. How is THAT happening.?? I thank you all for all the advise, I really do appreciate it. OH the compressor is an old DBX166 compressor. Use to use one just like it back in the late 70's particullarly on bass guitar. I've got another problem right now that has never happened. I have a track armed for record(no sound unless it's armed) but unless I hit the record button before I play the track I get no sound. So I can't just run the track and practice a part unless I record it. This has never happened before. I just trashed my pro tools preferences and that didn't help. rubber room here I come.