Pro Tools Carbon Latency Problem

[XJENSEN]

I'm pretty sure this is another delay compensation bug, as the ones users have been reporting over the last several years. Avid has so far only explicitly recognised one bug in folder context, but much more is going on here. With HDX there is an option where you have to explicitly enable a preference for sidechain compensation, don't know whether you tried toggling that one? (if it also exists for the Carbon.) Possibly related are the numerous known bugs with LLM, some of them may have tripped your routing configuration. I don't know how the hybrid engine manages the mix of DSP and LLM. Can you also check if you have a preference set to allow sends during LLM? This has also messed up things on my side when I was still on HD Native. I will be very interested what the outcome of this problem will be. For my part, I hope Avid will finally be forced to scrutinise their delay compensation infrastructure.

[Kyle Splittgerber]

[EDITED]
Hey Chris,

I am able to reproduce what you are seeing now. And, the team is investigating as we speak. Will you try this as a workaround?

On •AG• folder track, right-click on the "cmp" indicator in Mix window and click "Disable Track Compensation"? See attached.

Also, which port on your Mac do you have the PSU adapter connected to? And, are there any other peripherals (adapters, drives, hubs, etc) connected?

Thanks,

Kyle

[XJENSEN]

Well, well, like I said: delay compensation bug! I've been through this before. AVID never listened. Now it bites them in the *ss.

In overdub sessions with your mix at a more advanced stage, this workaround won't do any good, I'm afraid. It's not a solution.

AVID, please, please, after all these years, finally fix all these ADC bugs in Pro Tools! I'll be happy to provide you with all my ticket references if needed.

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Hey XJENSEN,

We try to fix delay comp bugs on a regular basis. Obviously, we still have work to do. And, the bug mentioned above clearly fell through the cracks. The team is working on a fix right now. And yes, disabling track compensation is a workaround (as you mentioned).

Will you provide your delay comp bug and list them in priority order? It'd be helpful to see your biggest pain points there.

Thanks.

[XJENSEN]

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Hey XJENSEN,

We try to fix delay comp bugs on a regular basis. Obviously, we still have work to do. And, the bug mentioned above clearly fell through the cracks. The team is working on a fix right now. And yes, disabling track compensation is a workaround (as you mentioned).

Will you provide your delay comp bug and list them in priority order? It'd be helpful to see your biggest pain points there.

Thanks.

Hi Kyle,

As a courtesy, I will provide you with a list of items that I quickly snagged together from my user account, which might be of interest to you. They concern two main topics, being ADC (regarding the current problem) and LLM (which may be of interest regarding the hybrid engine).

Note that, although I do hope someone will finally assess these cases in detail to identify relevant problems, I do not wish to be involved in any further troubleshooting. Because of these fundamental issues not having been fixed over a span of almost 5 years, I have now moved away from Pro Tools for compositional work. I have also decided to no longer renew my support plan, given the current pace of development and bug fixing.

Here is the list:

04/01/2020 3916895 Delay compensation fails for frozen folder tracks when user offsets in session Defect Logged/Known Defect
10/15/2019 3803594 MIDI is recorded early on timeline with ADC enabled Case Closed (not solved)
10/13/2019 3802429 Automatic Delay Compensation broken when used with LLM and external MIDI instruments Case Closed (not solved)
10/06/2019 3798415 Allow sends to persist during LLM also persists plugins Case Closed (not solved)
01/08/2017 3120087 Instrument Track Commit results in huge audio delay Case Closed (not solved)
12/16/2016 3106387 Automatic delay compensation for external MIDI instruments not working while input-monitoring Case Closed (not solved)
11/24/2016 3089491 Problems with MIDI delay compensation, MIDI note-on messages and MIDI volume Case Closed (not solved)

Best regards,
Xavier

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Originally Posted by XJENSEN

Hi Kyle,

As a courtesy, I will provide you with a list of items that I quickly snagged together from my user account, which might be of interest to you. They concern two main topics, being ADC (regarding the current problem) and LLM (which may be of interest regarding the hybrid engine).

Note that, although I do hope someone will finally assess these cases in detail to identify relevant problems, I do not wish to be involved in any further troubleshooting. Because of these fundamental issues not having been fixed over a span of almost 5 years, I have now moved away from Pro Tools for compositional work. I have also decided to no longer renew my support plan, given the current pace of development and bug fixing.

Here is the list:

04/01/2020 3916895 Delay compensation fails for frozen folder tracks when user offsets in session Defect Logged/Known Defect
10/15/2019 3803594 MIDI is recorded early on timeline with ADC enabled Case Closed (not solved)
10/13/2019 3802429 Automatic Delay Compensation broken when used with LLM and external MIDI instruments Case Closed (not solved)
10/06/2019 3798415 Allow sends to persist during LLM also persists plugins Case Closed (not solved)
01/08/2017 3120087 Instrument Track Commit results in huge audio delay Case Closed (not solved)
12/16/2016 3106387 Automatic delay compensation for external MIDI instruments not working while input-monitoring Case Closed (not solved)
11/24/2016 3089491 Problems with MIDI delay compensation, MIDI note-on messages and MIDI volume Case Closed (not solved)

Best regards,
Xavier

Thanks, Xavier! This is helpful. I'll look into it.

[Chris August]

Hey Kyle! So sorry I'm just now responding to this. Yes, that work around worked for me and I was able to get no latency while monitoring.

My MacBook Pro runs in clamshell mode. I have the Apple USB-C digital AV adapter plugged into the back left port. Into that I have a 4k monitor, iLok and power cable.
Nothing is plugged into the port next to it.
I have the Carbon plugged into the back right side port.
I have a UA UAD Satellite plugged in the right front port.

EDIT: I forgot to mention I have a Bluetooth Apple Trackpad and Keyboard attached as well.

Thank you!
Chris

[Darryl Ramm]

Chris -- Not to imply the Carbon is not triggering what is going on here, but MBP do display some unusual cooling issues at times, including with external displays connected, sometimes seemingly dependent on the display or adapter/connection method.

As a test to help troubleshoot this more you might want to try with the external display and adapter disconnected, internal display running only and/or the MBP clamshell not closed.

Also running iStats and sharing temps, fan speeds etc. may help compare what you and other folks see. Just my 2c. I don't have a Carbon. But I do occasionally see the fans on my 2019 15" MBP take off... not always for clear reasons. Like last week when running Logic Pro.. things spun up for tens of minutes, CPU did not seem busy and then behaved sane. And yes I know your problem is very reproducible/persistent with Carbon.

[Chris August]

Hey Darryl!

So we actually figured out the cause of the cpu temp issue and I was doing all of my tests with nothing attached. It's a known issue they are having with the connection with Apple. It causes the CPU to immediately turn on turbo boost once the Carbon is connected. I was able to disable turbo boost on my machine and it has kept a cooler temp now.

Now we're just debugging a DSP latency issue.

Thanks!
Chris

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Originally Posted by Chris August

Hey Darryl!

So we actually figured out the cause of the cpu temp issue and I was doing all of my tests with nothing attached. It's a known issue they are having with the connection with Apple. It causes the CPU to immediately turn on turbo boost once the Carbon is connected. I was able to disable turbo boost on my machine and it has kept a cooler temp now.

Now we're just debugging a DSP latency issue.

Thanks!
Chris

That's great news, Chris. I'll keep you updated on the DSP latency issue. Team is working on it right now.