PT7 Plug-In Compatibility

[JFreak]

the gripe with waves is that nobody knows what's going to happen. either waves V5 plugs work with protools or they don't; and if they don't, all waves users who choose to upgrade protools face the choice of paying for waves or abandoning them altogheter. that's crazy.

if waves indeed releases V6 plugin versions at the time of PT7 release, they should IMHO include new features worthy of the upgrade price. PT7 compatibility alone is not enough, if they want to play fair, or at least the same way many other companies (mcdsp and urs for example) do -- and if they would want to offer their customers good service, they'd provide PT7 compatible V5 installers without new features and without extra charge.

i have paid for waves V5 plugs and i'm fine with the feature set they offer. i'm going to be really disappointed if i cannot use them in PT7. i might consider upgrading to V6 if they offer good new features, and i think that there MUST be good new features should they change the version number.

mark my words: if the only new feature of waves V6 is PT7 compatibility, and if that V6 is a paid upgrade only available to those having active WUP, then i will abandon waves. i recommend you do the same

[jeremyroberts]

>> they should IMHO include new features worthy of the upgrade price

But do you suggest they modify the featureset of existing plugs?

I would be very upset if the featureset changed on existing plugs, and if I were to load in sessions created with an older version and the sound was not identical.

I am quite satisfied with how waves v5 plugs sound and do not want these plugs to change how they sound.

The reason for WUP is similar to many software companies who charge an annual fee -- this is IN LINE with many, MANY professional applications from Autodesk, to Quark, Adobe, Dantz, MYOB, among many others. Waves annual fee is about 4%. That is less than most other software companies.

We do not have to upgrade to PT7 or OS 11 -- Waves V5 with current waveshell is rock solid. You don't have to upgrade.

Annual maintenance plans are new to the audio world, so we should either get used to it, or buy software from companies that don't do this. Your choice. I'll pay Waves as I see the value - and if you add a bundle every now and then, WUP is waived/extended.

There's no real way to discuss the concept of annual maintenance contracts if people are going to take it to the mat. I suggest you to look at other software platforms to compare the value.

[Andre Knecht]

Business rules are:

Everybody listen up - he’s learning us good!

[…] You guys should understand…

I love a good debate. That is to say, when people presenting their opinions, with added facts, personal experiences and/or observations to support it.

On the other hand, I have a real problem with those who pretend to tell me what to think and what to do.

Perhaps Andre didnt quite get my point whinging is ineffective the proper way to complain is to put your money where your mouth is, if you want waves to ditch WUP-ass then DONT pay them any BUCKS then.

Sic. André thinks he got your point rather well the first time - thank you very much. On the other hand, you would do yourself a lot of good if you took a little time and posted in English. Consider using punctuation.

However if you have a little more insight in software development you'll realise…

You are my new favorite delicate genius, SuperBuddy™.

1. Stop thinking that you must upgrade everytime a new version or update arrives.
2. Dont throw money at waves for fear on never being able to afford nexgen plugin supernova

You are priceless. Your assumptions about other people’s thinking are best described as being simultaneously arrogant and asinine. Speak for yourself and stop making assumptions.

[taiazeez]

Well I say, I nver for one moment thought the DUC was the place to learn english grammar, so i missed a few puncto's big bleeding deal eh!!
Perhaps your sentences need a little work ok..... next term please do better. lets not get anal please...
Im kinda bored with this one now as there are a lot more important hardware news to consider lets give this one a rest now shall we Andre.

[Andre Knecht]

I am quite satisfied with how waves v5 plugs sound and do not want these plugs to change how they sound.

I’m with you there, Jeremy.

The reason for WUP is similar to many software companies who charge an annual fee -- this is IN LINE with many, MANY professional applications from Autodesk, to Quark, Adobe, Dantz, MYOB, among many others. Waves annual fee is about 4%. That is less than most other software companies.

The above may all be true, but it doesn’t change the fundamental fact that Waves is NOT delivering on what they claim to be the “benefits” of WUP-ASS. No comparison to other industries is going to change that.

We do not have to upgrade to PT7 or OS 11 -- Waves V5 with current waveshell is rock solid. You don't have to upgrade.

Again, all very true. On the other hand, there are companies that actually deliver when they ask for money. Digidesign is certainly among those. The amount and scope of new features that have been added to the application over the last few years is indeed staggering. I don’t have a problem paying for things. I have a problem paying for next to nothing.

Annual maintenance plans are new to the audio world, so we should either get used to it, or buy software from companies that don't do this. Your choice. I'll pay Waves as I see the value - and if you add a bundle every now and then, WUP is waived/extended.

Good on ya, Jeremy. I respect that and I wouldn’t dream to tell you to think or do otherwise. My personal take is different…

WUP-ASS - as implemented by Waves over the course of the last two years - bothers me. A lot. It is underhanded, devious and demonstrably unfair.

There's no real way to discuss the concept of annual maintenance contracts if people are going to take it to the mat. I suggest you to look at other software platforms to compare the value.

We’re on the mat? Well, waddya know. What do you propose, Jeremy? One way, one-sided discussions with no dissenting opinions? And while we’re offering each-other suggestions, here’s one from me: forget for a moment what database developers are doing. Take a look instead at what Waves has charged for WUP-ASS fees over the last couple of years, and what they’ve delivered to their customers.

[Wolfgang Eller]

Waves annual fee is about 4%.

OK let´s do the math.
My Platinum bundle was (and still is) about 3000€.
It expired 03/03/04 which is 19 months.
Waves says $553,27 which are 461€.
That´s 291€ per year. Almost 10%.

If all the other plug in companies will charge us in future for an update, and I bet there will be, I can see what it´s for and what it´s worth and I can decide if I´m doing it or not but with WUP you have to pay in advance and hoping for getting SOMETHING.
Sorry but even with a blind date you have a better chance to get something you might like. And it´s for free. Sometimes.

Btw. the math is just right for the last 2 months, before it was almost 20 %.

Cheers Wolfgang

[JFreak]

>> they should IMHO include new features worthy of the upgrade price

But do you suggest they modify the featureset of existing plugs? I would be very upset if the featureset changed on existing plugs, and if I were to load in sessions created with an older version and the sound was not identical.

actually i meant featureset of bundles (as in adding new plugs) as that seems to be their business model (as single plugs are priced ridiculously high compared to bundles) -- but as far as i'm concerned, waves can freely add features to any existing plug as long as they don't rip off or change older features. it is very important to maintain backwards compatibility, but that doesn't mean that plugins should stagnate. a good example of a good upgrade was the tempo features of V5, which didn't break V4 compatibility but only added some new functionality.

I am quite satisfied with how waves v5 plugs sound and do not want these plugs to change how they sound.

me too, that's my point. i'd want to continue using the V5 plugs within the PT7 platform. i just have a hunch that they see this platform upgrade as a cash cow...

so i'm afraid that waves only gives the update to WUP'ed customers, and therefore we older customers would have to pay for the upgrade. and if that is the case, then they should offer something more than just PT7 compatibility. charging money from that alone is just ridiculous, as other respectable companies give PT7 compatibility updates for free; some have even stated that it's a piece of cake to port PT6 plugs into PT7 -- if others can do it easy and free, then waves should too.

i think waves should release a PT7 compatible V5 installer for free, as we V5 customers have already paid for the V5 feature set. compatibility is not a feature, and paid upgrade means new features, at least in my book. as much as i like some waves plugs, enough is enough. if they think i'd pay for PT7 compatibility alone (not offering any new features), they're wrong -- then i will say goodbye.