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  #1  
Old 01-07-2020, 01:12 PM
illution1 illution1 is offline
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Default mono metering for LUKS

Hello hive mind, I have a question for you:

I am mixing for radio broadcast, so I need to conform to the LUKS loudness regulation @ -24LUKS.

I have a mono session going with only mono in the entire signal path. On my final MONO aux track, I am using Waves "WLM Plus" loudness meter to target my long term values at -24LUKS. Everything is metering the way I want it to.

However, when I bounce the mono .wav and import it back into PT, I load a new loudness meter on that new mono track and it only meters at -27LUKS.
This leads me to believe to that WLM measures the mono signal as if it was duplicated into stereo...even though it isn't?

Very confusing.
Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2020, 03:03 PM
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spoons spoons is offline
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Default Re: mono metering for LUKS

The 3db drop in level is consistent with feeding a mono signal into a stereo bus which sounds like what you are doing when check your mix back.

As radio is broadcast in stereo I suggest you make your final output in stereo , feed your mono tracks / buses to a stereo master bus.

Spoons.





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  #3  
Old 01-07-2020, 11:55 PM
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Top Jimmy Top Jimmy is offline
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Default Re: mono metering for LUKS

Quote:
Originally Posted by spoons View Post
As radio is broadcast in stereo...
AM isn’t.

And don’t dare send a spot mixed in stereo to an AM broadcaster because more often than not, only one side (left or right) of the playback source is even plugged into the broadcast mixer.
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Old 01-08-2020, 12:00 AM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Re: mono metering for LUKS

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Originally Posted by Top Jimmy View Post
AM isn’t.

And don’t dare send a spot mixed in stereo to an AM broadcaster because more often than not, only one side (left or right) of the playback source is even plugged into the broadcast mixer.


Rubbish.

Who on Earth told you that?


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  #5  
Old 01-08-2020, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: mono metering for LUKS

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Originally Posted by Sardi View Post
Rubbish.

Who on Earth told you that?


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You overestimate the attention to detail given by US broadcast engineers. Nobody had to tell me that. I just had to hear a spot I mixed broadcast on a couple different AM stations to know that half the mix was missing and I had to mix both stereo and mono versions and send them out accordingly based on delivery to an AM or FM broadcaster.
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2020, 01:55 AM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default mono metering for LUKS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Jimmy View Post
You overestimate the attention to detail given by US broadcast engineers. Nobody had to tell me that. I just had to hear a spot I mixed broadcast on a couple different AM stations to know that half the mix was missing and I had to mix both stereo and mono versions and send them out accordingly based on delivery to an AM or FM broadcaster.

We’d be shown the door if that happened over here.

Jokes aside, I think you’ll find whoever ingested the audio was a moron or the receptionist as opposed to the console being fed a left or right channel from the playout machine.

Nothing entering the console designed to playback music etc. will be mono. That fold down will happen way after it leaves the console.

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Old 01-08-2020, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: mono metering for LUKS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardi View Post
Jokes aside, I think you’ll find whoever ingested the audio was a moron or the receptionist as opposed to the console being fed a left or right channel from the playout machine.

Nothing entering the console designed to playback music etc. will be mono. That fold down will happen way after it leaves the console.
I confirmed with a retired broadcast guy that many of the AM stations he worked at in his career used mono analog mixers and they would only feed one side of the playback device through the console. I know for a fact that there is still at least one station in my broadcast market that does this. I can’t vouch for the 20 other stations on the AM dial as I’ve never done business with them.
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  #8  
Old 01-09-2020, 04:12 PM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default mono metering for LUKS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Jimmy View Post
I confirmed with a retired broadcast guy that many of the AM stations he worked at in his career used mono analog mixers and they would only feed one side of the playback device through the console. I know for a fact that there is still at least one station in my broadcast market that does this. I can’t vouch for the 20 other stations on the AM dial as I’ve never done business with them.


Not to derail the thread anymore, but to put it bluntly, these must be some seriously Mickey Mouse stations.



I've worked the past 17 years in broadcast radio. 5 stations - 2 FM, 3 AM. What you described has NEVER been the case. Heck, even when doing an OB and sending a Mono signal back to the station, the stereo output from the playback devices are either summed at the source or in the mixer/codec. A Mono station should not be taking one side of the feed.



Also, I have to ask, having done over 10 years in Radio Production, what was in your 30 sec spot that was panned so hard left or right that was lost on playback? I really don't want to criticise anyone's work, but it seems very weird to mix a spot destined for radio that would have such hard panned elements that would disappear like that?

Last edited by Sardi; 01-09-2020 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 01-10-2020, 04:15 PM
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Default Re: mono metering for LUKS

Not Mickey Mouse stations. Some of the biggest in market. Been doing things that way for 80 years. Anything that comes out of their own production studio is always just fine. Anything that comes in from another studio is at risk. So best to provide a mono mix.

I will walk back my claim about it being “many” stations. Given my experience I can say I currently know one that does this, and given the past and the size of the US, I’ll wager there are still some others out there that do too.

The spot that went south had 4 voice actors, 3 were “musketeers” and 1 was the VO. Monty Pythonesque insults, swords being unsheathed, blades clashing all around as they moved around in the “fight”. I don’t remember what the product was, but I do remember it sounded great in stereo and folded down to mono. Then I heard it during broadcast and it sounded completely stupid with missed elements and big volume differences because one side was left floating. I learned then to bounce to both stereo and mono and disseminate them accordingly.
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