Surprising results of a microphone comparison

[ISedlacek]

Mine is a small studio which I use for creating my own acoustic music. I have top end DACS mic preamp and Apogee Rosetta AD (a pair of Millennia Origins is on the way).
So far I considered my U87 as a godly and extremely precious thing (necxt to my Schoeps), a jewel in my studio, the best for vocals without any doubt. I sometimes did have some occassional feeling of slightly thin, "edgy" places in some vocals on my recordings, but I attributed them to maybe too small room etc.

Today a friend of mine brought Oktava M 319 mic to test it. It turned in the end to be a thorough mic test for vocals and spoken word (male, female).
We used 5 different mics: U87 , my Schoeps MK4V and MK21 (stereo, mono), Oktava M 319 and my Sony C-38B
This simple comparison done today (and listened to by three different persons with exactly the same impressions) were quite shocking to me.
Among these 5 mics (+ two stereo Schoeps miking), U87 had undoubtedly the worst and most unpleasant sound of all, be it for male or female vocal (not only slightly). Sharp, edgy, not warm, lacking the pleasant full voice body comparing to other mics participating in the test. (we also used comp/non comp variations etc., vocal reverb/no reverb)

The results were very clear and simple.
Absolutely the best, shining, lovely, natural warm sound for any vocal or spoken word came from a pair of Schoeps MK4V (so far I normally used them only for instruments ..). The second best was a single MK4V (very intimate, sweet, lovely, present). Then in more or less one line Schoeps MK 21 (single or stereo - more ambience around, less focused vocal). Sony B-38 was completely uncoloured and brought a perfect flat rendering of the vocal source (it could be great for a purpose where a faithful and natural reproduction of vocal is needed). Oktava was also not bad, more mellow, round in the mids, but maybe lacking some very subtle details and "air".
Neumann U87ai brought undoubtedly the least pleasant sound, sharp, thin paper like in all cases.

Now I fully understood what could be behind certain "sharpeness" in some of my vocal recordings (mine is non pop or rock music). And for sure I will not be able to record any vocals with U 87 any more after the clear revelation today.

I wonder - does someone use small diaphragm mics for vocal recordings ? I found the sound of Schoeps very lovely ...
Does anyone have a similar feeling about U87 ?

Ivo

www.zulu.cz/sedlacek

[1m1]

I have felt the same way about the U87 as a vocal mic for a long time now. I tried it once, years back, didn't like it and never went back to it again.

To be fair to the U87 however, apparently it is particularly picky about the input impedance that it wants to see in a mic pre. I really don't know the specifics, but I've heard this from 3 people who I consider extremely knowledgable about this kind of thing. Maybe someone can enlighten us as to why this is so.

I was recording a scratch vocal on an artist in the control room (we all monitored on headphones). I used an Oktava MC012 because it was already set up to record something else. The vocal wasn't intended to be a keeper, but the producer came back the next day after living with the reference CD saying it was the best vocal sound he'd ever heard on that singer! Go figure.

[MoreMeintheMonitors]

Trust your ears, my friend, trust your ears.

Possibly there is something wrong with the U87, BUT in my side by side mic taste tests, we got some surprising results as well. I've got recordings of the same vocalist thru the same signal path with about 50 different mics and some of the 'tried and true' ones aren't all that. My friends and I agreed on almost all evaluations, and even did some other recordings with guitar and cello, just for good measure and still had the same conclusions.

Schoeps fared VERY well in our tests as well, so I think you're on the right track..

[xl-sander]

i used the u 87 long time with even bad pre and it was as u said a little sharp etc,3 months ago i bought inner tube mod for u87,now its a u87 cpsule with a tube body...and now i use dan alexander(neve)pre or reussenzehn tube pre,and my vocals nevr sounded that good,recording is through a rme-adi 8 pro into the adatbridge from digi...the best vocal sound i ever heard all around my area...)

[kurt]

3 months ago i bought inner tube mod for u87,now its a u87 cpsule with a tube body...

What´s this? URL? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[José Luis Díaz]

Dear ISedlacek ,
We arrived at the same conclusion than you some time ago.
We are a small video/film post production company. In our ADR room we have the same Schoeps that we use in shooting. This way guarantees us the best blend between both stages.
We love the sound of human voice Schoeps gives.
The only complain is the relativelly small sensitivity of this brand for our tasks. We would need a higher amount of milliVolts per Pascal. The capsule we use, MK41, has only 13 mV/Pa. We would be happier with 18 mV/Pa.
For Foley we use Sennheiser MKH 416. Because it has a higher sensitivity (so less electronic self noise) and footsteps are more or less the same with both mikes.

Good luck.

Jose Luis

[ISedlacek]

Thank you all for your interesting comments. I must say I am NOT recording any pop or rock vocals. Just occassionally some natural vocals in subtle, etherical acoustic songs. Now I am sure that I will not be able to record any more vocals on U87. A pair of Schoeps placed in XY stereo sounds already 3 times better (I found it right now). And surprisingly I was told, that even some rock and pop vocalist sometimes record like this (using a pair of DPA 4003 - for example Patty Cathcart (Tuck & Patty)- as John La Grou told me).
But I wonder - supposing I would think of replacing U87 with another typically vocal microphone suitable for both male/female voice, but this time sounding really sweet, mellow, full and "airy", which one would you recommend ?

[ISedlacek]

...forgot to say that I am not interested in any kind of "vintage" sound etc.

[TiPo]

Dear Sedlacek,

First of all the Millennia Origin I've find the one of the best choice as preamp-eq-compressor combo!!
Millennia is wonderful!!
I use the U87Ai and I love it as of now! I haven't tried any Schoeps mike yet though!
Are you after the really clean sound? Because I am!
If you are too than have you really find the Schoeps cleaner or in what way are they better? I don't know about the Schoeps but considering that it's also German and it goes back a long way, can't be bad at all! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ISedlacek]

I know, I already tried a pair of Origins - it is more than amazing, it is an open ticket to the top end sound league - warm, sweet, stunningly musical. I cannot wait till I have them (I will have a specially matched and adjusted pair with an extra insert input for EQ/comp section + a set of different tubes)
I also tried to put U87 on Millenia, but still, to my ears even Oktava sounded more pleasant to me (but Oktava would not be my real choice ...slightly muddy, but warm).
Schoeps are amazing too. Very clear, lively and musical. Not intended as vocal mics primarily, but sound very nice, especially as XY pair for vocal. Since recording vocal is not my main topic, I may think of another special vocal mic in very slow pace. Beyer MC 740 ? Brauner Phantom C ? Or ? Maybe the Schoeps will make me happy for some time.