Everything gets better untill I start recording Vox

[ixnys]

So I start my musical projects recording drums first, then bass, then acoustics, then electrics, and finally vox. Everything get's progressively better sounding until I start trying to record vox. It's like the vox don't seem to fit in niceley with everything else. So I'm trying to figure out if the reason the vox don't sound good is because the song just hasn't been mixed yet, or is it the singer, or the equipment?

My signal chain conisists of a B.L.U.E. mic...the top of the line one with the interchangeable capsules. The mic goes through a Millentia STT-1, then into a distressor, and then into a LA2A. (I don't think my problem has to do with my equipment). However I don't record in a vocal booth or a treated room. But when I sing into the mic, I'm so close I don't hear any of the room anyway. So I'm curious whether or not the room could make any difference.

I really think and HOPE that the problem has to do with none of the tracks being mixed. I mean right now everything sounds great but they're huge...I'm guessing a lot of frequency hogging is taking place giving no room for the vocals to sound good within the track. When I solo the vox they sound good. As I said earlier though the vox just seem disconnected to the music...the seem too dry and get masked in the choruses.

So any opinions, tips, or related stories would be greatly appreciated.

[Jim Roberts]

Could be a lot of factors of course. But assuming your song and vocal performance is good, it's probably a matter of some HPF and getting the vocal to be less "mono".

Consider dialing in a high pass filter (don't know your voice, but it's worth a shot).

Also buss the vocals to a stereo aux and put 15ms of delay in the left side and 30ms in the right and bring the original up the middle. This should put the vocals more into the stereo field and may blend better with the rest of your tracks.

Certainly you will have to carve out space in all of the other instruments to fit the vocal in, but start with the above tips and see what happens.

Again, without hearing it, the above could be invalid - but hopefully it helps.

[Mount Royal]

Just a guess based upon what you've offered so far: It's quite possible that some other instruments - likely guitars given your material - are competing with the frequency bandwidth represented by your singer. It may be that the particular voice in question has a lot of energy in a certain frequency group also strongly represented by one of the prominent guitars, say. The usual treatment for this would be to use subtractive EQ in those bands, treating one or both of the offending parts. Frequency ranges like 180 Hz to 300 Hz are the ones which get my voice in trouble with acoustic guitars. Additional compression might also play a favorable role.

Let's see what others offer; I don't earn a living with my recording techniques. If you'd consider posting an example you'd likely get more specific suggestions...

Best wishes,

John Caldwell

[MusicRocks]

Cut everything at 250 just a tad and boost just a tad on the vocals. HP at 150. See if that works--I know it will put the vocals in a nice pocket but make sure it doesnt hurt the overall warth of the mix

[ixnys]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. I think you're right that I have to get my voice sounding as good as I can at tracking or it will be even more of a bitch to make it sound good in the mix.

[tlester]

Wow... That's a boat load of total speculation! NO matter how close you sing, room can make a big difference. Can you post an mp3 of a song or two that have this issue that we can listen to? That will help a lot.

Try to avoid too much advice from people with specific EQ treatments and such. Without hearing the voice/track, they have no idea!

-Tom

[ixnys]

well i'll try to post the track when i have the vox recorded and you guys can tell me what you think. So untill then.

[jho]

Of course it could be many things and good suggestions thus far.

Keep in mind, the vocal is the highlight of virtually every pop/rock/hip hop/country song ever made.

So mute everything except maybe kick and snare, and bring the vocal in. Get those three elements sounding great together; THEN start building the rest of the instruments around them. When things start clashing use the techniques given above. PT and digital in general is not very forgiving, so do EQ cuts as opposed to boosts in most cases.

But by all means make the vocal one of the first several things you focus on at the begining of the mix.

[ixnys]

Thanks for the advice JHO.

[O.G. Killa]

I've used the blue bottle mics before and didn't particularly care for them on vocals. They are very big sounding and have a lot of bottom end to them. It made the vocals sound muddy. On instruments it sounds great, but on vocals it was so-so for me. I had 3 of their capsules too, I had the C12 soundalike, the U47 soundalike and the M50 soundalike. The M50 sounded really good on a string section we recorded but again it was a little bottom heavy. The U47 had a lot of low mid to it and was great for acoustic bass, outside the kick, heavy metal guitars and as a boomy room mic (ala John Bonham), but I didn't like it for vocals. Didn't have enough presence in the high end. The C12 was closer, it had more high end on it, but it wasn't where I wanted it. It sounded like it the presence bump was more around 6K and I wanted (and needed) it up around 10K.

Whether or not the mic has too much bottom or not is subjective...if you solo your vocals and like the way they sound then great! the mic suits your singer's voice. When you turn on all the other track if it goes from good to bad then it's a mix issue. But if you don't like the sound of the singer's track to start with you're gonna have a heck of a time trying to get it to sound good in the mix.

Another thing to keep in mind...always try to attenuate freq. first before trying to boost them. Most likely, as others have posted, there is some other instrument in the same freq. range as the voice and is masking the full sound of the vocals. The trick is to be able to hear which instrument is getting in the way of the vocal. Once you can hear that you'll be able to move in the right direction. It can also be that the vocals just need to be compressed. I just recorded and mixed a Pop/R&B song for a producer. He was getting really frustrated because all the synths and stuff sounded good, but the acoustic guitar and vocals sounded weak, couldn't be heard in spots, had no presence in the track, all the BG vocals sounded thin, etc...

But once I started mixing it and panning everything and adjusting level he started to realize it was going to sound good. Usually when I record vocals I don't compress the voice or if I do, I'll use very little compression. That's all find and good, but sometimes when you have a lot of synths going on that are really hot signals the vocals can get lost until you start mixing and putting some compressors and limiters on them... and automated the volume of them.

This project I just did was also done in a room with no acoustic treatment as you described. The one thing you really have to make sure is that you can't hear "the room" at all throughout the track. solo the track and put a compressor and a limiter on it (to simulate what it will be like when mixed). Listen to the whole vocal track from beginning to end. Make sure there is no room effect anywhere. Sometimes you'll only hear it on the one high note you hit going into the last chorus and you say, "that's ok, it's only that one time, nobody will notice.." but it will effect the sound. Re-position the singer around the room and find the spot that has the least amount of room bleed into the mic. Then make a makeshift iso-booth. Here's what I did...

After finding the spot in the room where room reflections were at a minimum, take two mic stands put them about 3 or 4 feet apart. Have them behind the singer by about 2 feet. Grab a blanket of any kind (the thicker the better, we used a sleeping bag). Drape it over the two mic stands. Get it so that it will stay up without falling down. Adjust the hight of the micstands so that the top of the blanket is at least a foot or so higher than the height of the singer. Tada! Instant gobo! HAHA move it around a little bit to try and see if you can find the pefect spot to get rid of those last few annoying reflections you couldn't get out by moving the singer around the room. For my session, refections were bouncing off the wall behind the singer (about 6 feet away) and coming over her shoulder into the mic. Putting this makeshift gobo in the way did the trick. You should be able to hear the difference (If not then try moving it around the singer until the reflections go away). Sometimes the singer might get annoyed because they have to belt out that one hi note a few times before you find exactly where to put the gobo, but it's worth it in the end.

Anyway, this is my two cents. I hope at least some of it can be of use to you. Good luck!