Feature Request: Aliases and Folder ala Logic

[Muzoid]

This has been in Logic Audio since probably '92, and I just realized that I miss it. Here's the gist of it...

A folder can contain any number of tracks/ regions. When you open the folder you would see just what's in it (in the edit window) and like a region group, when you closed a folder, you would only see 1 item instead of everything that's in it. In that way it handles some of the functions of using memory locations to control your track show/hide.

I used to set up 24-40 tracks to do BGs in a folder, I'd then make aliases of the folder and place them everywhere where those BGs would need to ultimately play (now, I've already copied my BG vox BEFORE even recording them and as we're recording, if we stop and listen down they play in all the choruses, because an alias is a reference to them, similar to the what an alias is in the Mac OS).
After I'm done recording the Vox, I'll edit them and those edits are reflected everywhere. If I re-edit them or say do some pitch correction to the originals, that continues to be referenced and I DON'T have to re-copy and paste everywhere, every time I make a little change to the edit on the originals.

This is a really cool feature that is extremely useful.

[Lee Blaske]

This would be certainly useful for some. I use Logic, and make use of this extensively. Also, before I used Logic, I used SVP, and I REALLY miss the ability to have totally different, concurrently running tempo maps in each folder. I'm starting to think that I'll never see an application that does that again in my lifetime (unless I get rich enough to commission someone to build it for me ).

I don't think you're going to ever see folders in the PT GUI, though. The way it appears to me, integration with high-end control surfaces is a VERY important thing for any future PT development. I think this makes it necessary that PT remains a very top-level oriented application regarding the GUI. Things need to be linear, and clear. It's a matter of philosophy of interface design. Folders (or any nested information), with different combinations of tracks popping up here and there in the track list order and taking control of faders, panners, etc. would make things very confusing in regard to what's happening on screen vs. what's happening on the control surface. PT does have ways of grouping things, and I don't doubt that more elegant ways of doing things will be devised. I just don't expect to see ever see folders in PT (although I'm open to being surprised).

In a way, no folders is a feature which makes PT more mix engineer friendly. The only way to really accommodate a folder feature would be if had an option of toggling the entire display from folder view to non-folder view. In other words, a composer/producer could use folders to quickly organize a song, but then the entire view could be toggled so that each nested track would appear in its appropriate, contiguous, top-level track line (perhaps with some color or background texture that would indicated that it was a component in a folder).

Lee Blaske

[Tony Shepperd]

I worked with a producer a few weeks ago who was using folders in DP.
It was a gigantic PITA. We kept hearing things that were playing and not visible, and so starts the folder hunt.

What folder was the mysterious sound coming from?
Was it the Strings folder...
No, Brass folder...
No, Perc folder...
Ahh, the 4th folder... MISC. Perc

The concept is cool, but the reality of it didn't impress me.
If something is tucked into the wrong folder...

With 40 cues to complete, folders were a serious black hole of time.

[Lee Blaske]

I worked with a producer a few weeks ago who was using folders in DP.
It was a gigantic PITA. We kept hearing things that were playing and not visible, and so starts the folder hunt.

I really agree it could be a PITA for someone unfamiliar with the session. I never have that problem myself, because I'm pretty organized and remember where I've put things. If you can do that, folders are enormously powerful, especially as a compositional tool. With some types of MIDI composition (e.g. orchestral instrument samples that may have many, many MIDI track lines for a huge variety of articulations), folders are downright essential.

Folders are for composers or composers who do their own engineering. They're not at all good for mix engineers that were not in on the ground floor of a project. It requires 3D thinking. That's why I think that having the ability to toggle between a folder view, and a totally linear view would be the only way to keep mix engineers happy if folders were added to PT.

Lee Blaske

[Muzoid]

Tony,

I don't know how folders in DP work, but in Logic folders and aliases (and aliases of folders) totally ROCK and put workflow into warp-speed! (DP always had issues with chunks / folders, so don't let that dissuade you).

If you haven't tried it you should at least witness what it can do in Logic (with someone who knows the program).

The biggest reason that I would like to see it in PT is so that I DON'T have to re-copy and re-paste audio regions every time I make an edit.

FWIW, I'm still using both programs simultaneously to write even though it's a royal pain in the a** - Logic still does a lot of things better. If only Logic could be a reWire slave - 64 channels of internal digital cross-app audio would do me just fine.

[froyo]

By Muzoid

The biggest reason that I would like to see it in PT is so that I DON'T have to re-copy and re-paste audio regions every time I make an edit.

Hello. You should look into Region Groups, this can achieve exactly that functionality inside of Pro Tools. Say you make a Region Group of the drums for the first verse of a song. You can repeat that Region Group as many times as you like on the timeline. For example let's say you repeat that Region Group 8 times on your session. Then you decide to make an edit. First you have to Ungroup the Region Group so that you can make an edit, whether it's addition or a subtraction. Once your edit is complete you then have to Regroup. When you give the Regroup command there will be a dialog that will give you the choice of applying that change to all the other instances of that Region Group or keep it just in this one instance. If you choose all then the changes will happen instantly on the other 7 times you had that Region Group on your timeline. Good luck.