Everything gets better untill I start recording Vox

[ixnys]

What are some reverbs (halls,rooms,chambers,plates) or any other effects to give a vocal a small sense of space but still keep it basically dry sounding? Just something to help it fit in with the music better.

[jho]

Well that's a wide open question:) what does the song call for? Dry is dry so doubling or a delay sometimes does the trick. I never use a big reverb or hall on vocals unless I'm using it for a specific effect. But I'll generally put a bit of space around the singer with a room setting (unless of course you are cutting the vox in a room that has that ambience). I'm sure some others will chime in on this one.

[MusicRocks]

Originally posted by tlester:
Wow... That's a boat load of total speculation! NO matter how close you sing, room can make a big difference. Can you post an mp3 of a song or two that have this issue that we can listen to? That will help a lot.

Try to avoid too much advice from people with specific EQ treatments and such. Without hearing the voice/track, they have no idea!

-Tom

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually you were of least help. "Avoid advise"(great tip) hahahaha. Of course it would be ideal to hear it--dur. But he didnt post it. It wouldnt take him more than 5 minutes to carve out a space for his Vox at 250.

Try that

[sdevino]

EQ is only one of many ways to clear space for the vocal. The ear is very good at listening to multiple sources coming from different directions but does not do well hearing everything come from the same place.

It is important that instruments that share frequncies with the Vox not sound like they are coming from the same place in space. try things like panning, short left/right delays (less than 40ms and different amounts in each channel, adding uneven and varying phasing to things like piano, guitar or strings.

My favorite way of placing instruments in the mix is to record the instruments with some natural left/right ambiance by using clever stereo micing techniques. You also want to be sure that you use various mics and mic pres if possible to add varying flavors to the backing tracks

You might try not using the distressor and LA-2A or at least dropping one of them. You may be squeezing the life out of the vox. I prefer to record them straight in and use plugins (the new UA LA-2A plugin is pretty nice!).

YMMV, but I think you are having a mixing problem. You might think about trading your distressor or LA-2A for some mixing time in a good studio with a pro mixing engineer. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Steve

[ixnys]

I haven't even started mixing the song yet..cuz not all the tracks have been completed..the vox are the only tracks left. But I'm finding out SOOO much just has to do in the performance and how you sing a phrase. I'm noticing in some cd's you can keep a vocal dry but have it feel like it fits correctly in the mix by giving more space and reverb to other things such as drums.

I have an EQing question. I like adding a little bit of 2khz and 5khz.....I know the fundamental freq of vox is like around 120hertz....but it seems filtering off up to 180hz usually makes the vox sound better. Sometimes the vocal seems to muddy and bassy if i don't do this. So when i prepare to mix the song...what would be a good frequency to carve out for the vox...around 100-200?

I really like how the vox sit in Incubus, Bush, and Fuel songs. Any tips on what is being done in those mixes would be great.

[AE]

Originally posted by ixnys:
I have an EQing question. I like adding a little bit of 2khz and 5khz.....I know the fundamental freq of vox is like around 120hertz....but it seems filtering off up to 180hz usually makes the vox sound better. Sometimes the vocal seems to muddy and bassy if i don't do this. So when i prepare to mix the song...what would be a good frequency to carve out for the vox...around 100-200?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Vocals don't go that low unless you're a bass. I'm guessing the fundamental for most singers is in the 200 Hz to 600 Hz range.

Rolling of low end at 180 Hz is perfectly reasonable. Unless you have a VERY sparse mix or are going for some sort of interesting effect, the energy in the vocal track in that part of the frequency spectrum will definitely muddy your mix. But there's an even more important issue:

By close micing, as I assume you've done, unless you're using an omni the chances are that your vocal tracks have hyped low end due to the proximity effect when using pressure gradient or partially pressure gradient (ie most directional) microphones. You might want to try recording your vocal with an omni just to hear what it really sounds like. It's pretty likely that you won't need more low end than this -- you still may need less.

[woodywho]

Originally posted by ixnys:
The mic goes through a Millentia STT-1, then into a distressor, and then into a LA2A. (I don't think my problem has to do with my equipment

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you are not choking the ambiance out of the vox with this chain and lose the distressor, not the correct choice on vox!

What eq are you sending vox thru?
Post a sample of the track, then you can get better direction of mix!

[ixnys]

yeah...i'll just post a basic mix when i'm done and get your opinions...that will be the best.

[missilanious]

Hey Musicrocks do you have anything worth listening to or reading? But seriously, lose one of the comps, I would still keep the LA-2A but use it very lightly, maybee a few DB's of redux just to get more level on tape, or just to make your job easier. If you over-compress you'll give the signal no dynamics and then it won't sit right it will always seem to loud or to deep in the mix. Also I find that EQ after lots of compression (if your even compressing hard) leaves the vox sounding just unnatural and problematic, Genarally in your case i would track using the LA-2A like i said not compressing to much, then EQ when your in protools (or if you got a nice outboard EQ) and get rid of the problem areas, neg EQ is best cause its losing some of the noise floor from the recording instead of adding to it. And also think of ther frequency content in the song and work around it, if theres an instrument thats going to mask a certain band in your vox you might wan't to thin out the vox or the instrument. As you said your mix sounds better and better untill you get to vocals, the human voice is a very broad instruments while instruments have there "areas" in which they produce, well in general at least. After the vocals are EQ'd to your liking then i would send them to the distressor to get the dynamics right so they sit nice in the mix. And about your room, in my opinion this isn't the problem, just proximity of the mic (which i never used the bottle nor do I know which capsule you are using) I do own a Dragonfly and a Cactus, which both have good off axis rejection but have a huge proximity effect, expecailly the dragonfly. And done sessions with my dragonfly before I treated my room. Hope some of this helped.

[ixnys]

Thanks for your feedback Missilanious. Everyone's ideas have given me a slightly different perspective on how to record the vox...and I believe my vox are getting progressively better sounding with the techniques you have all been sharing.

So far I'm changing my setup to only using the La2a as a compressor...just gonna use slight compression..maybe 2-3db reduction. I can choose between two preamps...the avalon2022 and the millenia stt-1 origin. The avalon has no onboard eq and the millenia does. Both sound good...pretty similar actually but the millenia has the option of adding eq. But for tracking, maybe it is just better to not use any eq and just save that for mixing and using other eq plugins instead.

Is that a wise idea? I figured since the stt-1 was a prettty high quality preamp, I should make use of it's EQ...but if plugins can do just as good a job then why take a chance of potentially making eq settings that won't fit well when I go to do the mix. I have the waves renEQ btw and I like it.

Adding to this idea, is it better to try and make your vox sound as good as it can druing tracking..ie. getting perfect compression settings and eq settings? Or is it better to just do some slight compression and utilize best mic and pre without messing around with eq?