FPS Deliverables

[mellow1998]

Hey all, again, I'm in need of some direction, or at least advice.

The production company got back to me about deliverables, and now they say that need the PT session as "24 frames per second with 30 Non-Drop frame timecode". I responded asking for clarification, but could that mean that the video should be at 24 fps but the pro tools counter (and the counter on the video) at 30 non-drop?

However, the video used for the domestic mix and through this entire process is at 23.98 according to QT, and PT says the video is at 23.97 (and PT's tc is set as that). If the video company sends me a version of the film at 24 fps, seems like there would be a sync issue, no?

[minister]

Hi,

We need more information. Shot Film, video edit, film finish? shot and finished HD? Was there a Dolby Printmaster?

Changing the session rate to 24 won't change sync on stems as audio speed if controlled by Sample Rate.

But if there are two different speed versions of the program, you need to find that out.

[mellow1998]

Ok, the video and domestic prints were all done at 23.97 (Pro Tools)/23.98 (video digi camera HD i believe), and I used the domestic sessions to do this new mix. Dolby wasn't used for this particular print. I'm not totally sure about the other things you asked about, but this is what was just sent:

Acceptable Audio Delivery Formats
Frame Rate ||Sampling Rate ||Time Code Reference
True 24 FPS ||True 48 kHz or 96 kHz ||30 NDF
True 24 FPS ||True 48 kHz or 96 kHz ||25 EBU
23.976 FPS ||47.952 kHz or 95.904 kHz ||29.97 NDF



Now, since the video/film (which was already sent) is at 23.98, I think I just better go with the third option. This is just a matter of change the Session time code to 29.97 while leaving the video FPS at 23.98? No pullup/downs is required in this case? I thought that PT already operates at those sampling rates as everything has looked in sync throughout this entire process...

[minister]

Hmmm...

Ok.

There never was a 24fps version. All HD from begining to end.

Well, are you providing them with a session? Or with Stems?

By True 24fps they mean audio that runs in sync with an honest-to-God 24 fps movie (not a 23.98 or some flavor of 24p). The 30 NDF is for the audio recorder, which was prepped for the.1% pull to 29.97 for the audio post. But 24 is to 30 as 23.98 is to 29.97.

See in a "traditional" 35MM Film you would shoot at 24 and record audio at 30. then you post (after the telecine process) at (23.976)29.97. Then there would be a Printmaster process at the end of which the audio would get pulled back up to "film speed" along with the picture. So they want audio that is in sync with the final Answer Print, NOT your work Video. But you don't have that here.

You could just provide them with a Session that is set to 24fps and you would be fine. But let the producers know that there never was a 24 fps version. And if they intend to make one, they better know if they are going to change speeds or not.

Anyone else read it differently than me? It seems like a traditional Distributor Deliverable that has not been updated for the HD age.

[Postman]

Caution! If you did not engage audio pullup or pulldown within your Pro Tools session as you worked then your session is running at a true 48kHz, regardless of the timecode setting or frame rate of your video. You've used video that is .1% slow but the audio sample rate is normal. Therefore, you cannot fullfill any option by doing nothing to the audio. It sounds to me like you will have to change the audio. You can make a new session at 48kHz and import files from your previous work. On the import window, select to sample rate convert and enter the sample rate of your original audio as 47952. (Your original audio is actually at 48000, but use 47952!) Once imported, your new files will play at 48kHz, but the audio will have been sped up by .1%. You can check that is was successful by playing the new audio against original video, but this time select audio .1% pulldown within Pro Tools. Do NOT select pulldown of the video, only of the audio. This makes the audio play slow, at 47952khz, while your video will continue to play at 29.97 just like it did before. The audio should not drift now. This will satisfy option 3.

If you had known this specification up front you could have selected audio pulldown before doing any work.

[Postman]

I just read minister's post, which he posted as I was typing.

The spec is quite clear to me. It sounds like an "old school" approach, but it doesn't leave any doubt. THEY provided a 23.976 video master. YOU must change your audio samplerate to accomodate. What I described above will do that, unfortunately it will result in audio files that are stamped as 48kHz, but they will satisfy the basic requirement of playback length vs. sample rate. It sounds to me like they intend to play your tracks at 47952kHz and expect them to lock up to what they sent, OR they will play their video at true 24fps and expect your tracks to lock up when played out at 48kHz. Personally, I imagine they'll do the second of those two but it doesn't matter. The specification is clear.

[minister]

I am not sure he needs to pull the audio. There is no version of the picture that is different than what he has.

[mellow1998]

yea, i double checked with company who's did the hd to film transfers, and they are adamant that everything is 23.98 (they seem peeved that spc wants 24).

spc originally asked for 24 frame rate and 30 time code with the session and audio. when i asked for clarification, they sent the three options i posted above.

i double checked my M&E mix, optional, and reference tracks in peak and quicktime (not sure if they round numbers) and the audio is all 48.0000 KhZ.

last week i used the domestic printmaster session to print the beeps and pullups which are totally in sync with with provided video. again this is all at the 23.98 reference.

[Postman]

I am not sure he needs to pull the audio.

You could be right if their specification does not indicate what they really want. The spec is written without ambiguity, though, the way I read it. They provided 23.976, now they clarify to say that the audio should play at 47.952 against a 23.976 picture. So, the new audio has to be altered to make that happen.

[minister]

You could be right if their specification does not indicate what they really want. The spec is written without ambiguity, though, the way I read it.

True. But it makes an assumption : that there are 2 difrerent lengths of picture. I think that assumption should not be made in this case. There is one version.