Elastic Audio sonic quality

[BDWillis]

Speaking as the OP, I appreciate that this thread is back to the discussion at hand.

IMHO, nearly everything we do in the music business is very subjective... personally, I can enjoy any recording from documentary through mere pop confection. Taste and morality are two things that are virtually impossible to agree upon or legislate. ALL opinions represented here are valid... there are many facets of this business, each of which has a different mission, no more or less significant than the others.

All that said, my *opinion* of EA in its current form is based solely on its own merits, in solo (as opposed to in the track), when compared to old-school slice & dice. Just as I may use 2, 3 or even 4 algo's to tweak a given track as transparently as possible, it'd be great to have options *within* EA to further expand its usability... and that desire was the genesis of this thread. Thanks to all who've chimed in, & please keep your thoughts coming!! I'd love for Digi to know that there's a demand for this from its user base.

Originally Posted by badboymusic

If anyone knows about editing for major labels it is Brian.

HA!! So, badboymusic, where do I send the check??!

Warmest Regards,
Brian

[PhilBuckle]

I do find EA useful on small repairs. I have abandoned it on certain jobs where the audio suffered to much (acoustic guitars). Moving vocals the "slice and nudge" way is fine almost all of the time but there are certain situations where EA works well.
I had to re-sculpt a BV group the other day because I had changed the feel slightly after tracking. EA worked well on that.
I still prefer the old BD on multi tracked drums. Takes longer but I prefer the results.
I'd love for EA to be improved. A very useful tool indeed.
Great thread.

[digilogin]

Originally Posted by HearInc

Where's that point? What's absurd? How can you quantify art so as to call something detrimental to it?

This thread should be about using Pro Tools, however we want to use it. It's not a forum to make some moral judgment on my choice to use the tools available to me to do my job.

hello,

if you do not know where the point is, then there's probably at least a 50% chance you are on the wrong side of it. which one is milli and which one is vanilli? o.k., good.

like it or not, people make fun of phonies.

it does not take much of a moral compass to figure out what's absurd, or when you are participating in out and out fakery. you just have to be man enough [or woman enough] to know where you're at. otherwise you liable to never get past it to better work.

there is a big difference between an artist working through a bunch of takes to get something right, and simply digitally fixing every other note of a poor performance without making any real effort to obtain a good one. when the artist works through it, he or she usually improves and learns something.

now people are going to have opinions, and are going to make assessments of your position on such issues, whether you like it or not.

people have a right to assess the intentions of others, and to determine whether or not they wish to interact, or, if so, to what degree.

some people are known as the ones to send crappy bands to because they're willing to stay up all night editing crappy performances. is that what you want?

and the idea that you should be able to do whatever the hell you want to, and that everyone has to accept you no matter what, is erroneous, and has never been approved. things that are grossly misleading and deceptive can even be potentially, and generally, harmful to society. there are even laws against willful misrepresentation, and false advertising, and so forth.

moreover, the excuse of "i'm just doing my job" only goes so far. ultimately, it may not go as far as many people think it does.

everyone knows that there are legitimate uses for advanced editing techniques, and there are b.s. uses.

its worthy of consideration that some people work very hard to learn to play and sing. on the extreme other end of the spectrum, it appears that there are some that are literally willing to just pay someone to make them sound good, and then wiling to take credit for it. there is a undeniable disparity there, and no reasonable person feels good about that type of situation.

so nobody is trying to take your toolbox from you, or your shovel, but when people are posting about how they re-timed every other bar of a drum track just to make it listenable, it is pretty obvious that something is awry in that situation. and if you are doing that kind of thing you better be able to take a "joke".

i note that my first post in this thread was just kind of a humorous comment, but right away a bunch of people got all twisted and defensive. hmmm.

and this thread is probably as good a place as any to reach these issues. i'm sure the complaint to digidesign about the quality of the algorithm was duly noted by them much earlier so that should not be a concern. and i am also sure they have no problem with the idea that their product be put to good use.

digilom

[HearInc]

Originally Posted by digilogin

so nobody is trying to take your toolbox from you, or your shovel, but when people are posting about how they re-timed every other bar of a drum track just to make it listenable, it is pretty obvious that something is awry in that situation. and if you are doing that kind of thing you better be able to take a "joke".
digilom

Well, clearly you have decided where that line of "not ok to fix" is for yourself, and that's swell. I applaud you for taking a stand to defend what you so strongly believe in. Were this a discussion about politics or religion, or something that really matters, I might applaud you louder (well, if you agreed with me! HA HA!). But, if you insist on ridiculing those of us that do what we do, regardless of what you may think of it, seems a little less noble.

Here's what I mean about "where's the line". As soon as you take a sound out of the air and record it to any medium you've changed the sound. So, you don't have a "real" performance already. Did you run that through a compressor, well, now it's even less real. It certainly doesn't sound like that in real life. Did you punch a line in that guitar solo? Well, that's not something he played, so, "FAKE"! I'm sure you get the picture...

Modern recording is by nature an excercise in chasing perfection. Sure, a sucky band can't get there on their own, but neither can the best band out there. Retime every other bar? Nope, I retime EVERY bar if that's what the genre calls for... usually it has NOTHING to do with the drummer. Pitch correct every syllable? Sure, if that's what the genre and artist call for.

Now, if you'd like to argue about the state of each musical genre, and how processed pop and rock are the downfall of society, that's somthing different. I'll use the tools the way I need to do do my job, you use them to do your job the way you need them to. But, you don't need to be telling me that I'm doing something "wrong" because I don't use them the way you need do.

[BDWillis]

Originally Posted by digilogin

...and this thread is probably as good a place as any to reach these issues.

Actually, NO, digilom... that is what's known as "hijacking a thread".

YOUR discussion — which indeed has merit & has generated passionate responses, but is tangential to the subject here — should be continued, but I would respectfully ask that you do so by starting another thread and carrying forward there.

THIS thread is (was?) about PT users' experiences & opinions regarding EA sonic quality, and whether they would be interested in having other (i.e. third party) algorithms available.

Originally Posted by digilogin

...i'm sure the complaint to digidesign about the quality of the algorithm was duly noted by them much earlier so that should not be a concern.

Sure, Digi's aware of a few malcontents like me, but part of the intent of this thread is to generate (hopefully) enough response that they'll see a level of demand significant enough to pursue the afore-mentioned options. So, back to EA input, please...!!

Peace.

Brian

[badboymusic]

Originally Posted by BDWillis

HA!! So, badboymusic, where do I send the check??!

The same place you sent the "I Wanna Get Nasty" files would be fine.

No names please, I like to remain anonymous so I can berate others.

[BDWillis]

Ohhhhhhhh, NOW I get it... okay I won't divulge anything. HA!!! Hope you're doing well!!

Sorry folks, an old pal there, well hidden... now back (just maybe??!) to Elastic Audio feedback.

Warmest Regards,
Brian

[digilogin]

hello,

to digidesign: please don't devote any more resources to the dopey "elastic audio" feature. please utilize your expertise on more important things. there are plenty of meritorious improvements that should take precedence, as i am sure you are all well aware.


diglom

[roberts]

Originally Posted by digilogin

some people are known as the ones to send crappy bands to because they're willing to stay up all night editing crappy performances. is that what you want?

Yup, Making 6 figures a year with no college education.
I get to work all over the world at times in very cool studios, a few big name artists here and there.
No lame ass corporate gig for me.
I Luv Digidesign. keep it coming.

[elicious]

please don't devote any more resources to the dopey "elastic audio" feature

wow, didn't know you had to be a tool to use tools!
i 'spose in a previous life he would have written a letter to studer asking them to stop this silly "punch in" nonsense!
after all, that's cheating...
e